Public Accounts Committee

Minutes of ProceedingsThursday - 11 November 2021

PAC Minutes 11 November 21.pdf (185.29 kb)

Public Accounts Committee

Minutes of Proceedings

Thursday, 11 November 2021

Meeting Location: The Senate, Parliament Buildings, Belfast

Present:

Mr Roy Beggs MLA (Deputy Chairperson)

Mr Andrew Muir MLA

Present by Video or Teleconference:

Mr Cathal Boylan MLA

Ms Órlaithí Flynn MLA

Mr William Irwin MLA

Apologies:

Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA (Chairperson)

Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA

In Attendance:

Ms Lucia Wilson (Assembly Clerk)

Ms Gillian Barker (Assistant Assembly Clerk)

Ms Suzanne Patton (Clerical Supervisor)

Ms Marion Johnson (Clerical Officer)

The meeting went into Open Session at 2.10 pm.

The following NIAO Officials joined in the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer

The following NIAO Official joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.


1. Apologies

Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA (Chairperson)

Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA

Agreed: The Committee agreed Mr Roy Beggs MLA (Deputy Chairperson) would chair the meeting in the absence of Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA (Chairperson).

2. Draft Minutes of 4 November 2021

Agreed: A typo at 'Declaration of Interests' was noted and amended regarding the spelling of 'SureStart'. The draft minutes of the meeting of 4 November 2021, with this amendment, were signed and agreed to be published

3. Declaration of Interests

The following Members declared an interest in Agenda Item 7, inquiry into 'Closing the Gap – Social Deprivation and links to Educational Attainment'.

Mr Roy Beggs MLA declared he is a Governor of Roddensvale School, Larne and Committee Member, Horizon SureStart;
Mr Cathal Boylan MLA declared he is a Governor, Clea Primary School, Keady; and
Mr Andrew Muir MLA declared he is a Governor, Priory Integrated College, Holywood.

4. Matters Arising

The Committee noted an email from Dr Purdy thanking the Committee for their support on the Fair Start Report and that he will be writing to Minister McIlveen to propose a future role for the Expert Panel in supporting the monitoring and evaluation of A Fair Start.
Agreed: The Committee agreed this was a positive outcome from the evidence session.

5. Correspondence

The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer,

The following NIAO Official joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.

Dr Mark Browne AO DE

The Committee noted correspondence dated 6 November 2021 from Dr Mark Browne AO DE suggesting further school visits.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider this matter further at Agenda Item 7.

Recruitment of a Comptroller and Auditor General

The Committee noted correspondence dated 26 October 2021 from The Speaker, Mr Alex Maskey MLA, on behalf of the Assembly Commission, regarding the appointment of a Comptroller and Auditor General. The Committee noted the Assembly Commission has agreed a selection panel which includes the Chair of PAC.
Agreed: The Committee noted Mr William Humphrey CB, Chairperson, has written to The Speaker acknowledging his letter and requesting further details.

The meeting remained in Open Session at 2.16 pm

6. Memorandum of Reply – Management of the NI Direct Strategic Partner Project – Helping to Deliver Digital Transformation

The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer,

The following NIA Officials joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.

The Committee noted correspondence dated 26 October 2021, regarding a further Memorandum of Reply to PAC's third report 'Management of the NI Direct Strategic Partner Project – Helping to Deliver Digital Transformation'. The response included two accountability grids with open commitments in respect of Digital Transformation. The first relates to the NIAO report, published in June 2019. The second grid is in relation to the follow up of the PAC hearing in September 2020.

Agreed: The Committee welcomed the comprehensive MOR update and noted the work the Department was undertaking, in taking forward the recommendations coming out of the report.

The meeting went into Closed Session at 2.24 pm

7. Inquiry into 'Closing the Gap – Social Deprivation and links to Education Attainment' – Second Issues Paper

The following NIAO Officials joined in the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer,

The following NIA Officials joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Patrick Barr, Director;
  • Mr Andrew Allen, Audit Manager, and
  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.

The Committee discussed with the NIAO Officials the Restricted Second Issues Paper and agreed to include the paper in the main Report 'Closing the Gap – Social Deprivation and links to Education Attainment'.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to include the Restricted Second Issues Paper in the main report.
The Committee noted correspondence, dated 8 November 2021, from Dr Mark Browne AO DE's regarding a second school visit to gather evidence on best practice of the 'Closing the Gap' inquiry.
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Agreed: The Committee agreed the Clerk will investigate the possibility of scheduling a further school visit that would include NIAO Officials, and would ensure that COVID 19 risk assessments are adhered too.

The meeting went into Closed Session at 2.38 pm

8. Inquiry into 'Sports Sustainability Fund' – Briefing & Preparation

The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer,

The following NIA Officials joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Tomas Wilkinson, Director; and
  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.

The Committee received a briefing from the Clerk, Mr Kieran Donnelly CB C&AG and his team on next week's evidence session with Ms Antoinette McKeown CE Sports NI, regarding the inquiry into 'Sport Sustainability Fund'.

The Committee noted the relevant papers for the evidence session:
• Clerk's Briefing dated 8 November on the Second Evidence Session;
• SSF SportNI Key extracts from Hansard report dated 08 July 2021, covering the relevant evidence session heard by Public Accounts Committee;
• Sports Sustaninaiblity Fund – Issues Paper;
• 20210917 Follow up letter from Tracy Meharg;
• 20211101 Response form Tracy Meharg;
• Sports Sustainability Fund – SportNI Board Paper, Award Approval Framework;
• Sports Sustainability Fund – SportNI Board Paper Awards; and
• Sports Sustainability Fund – SportNI Board Paper Investment Decisions There then followed a question and answer session.

The meeting remained in Closed Session at 2.56 pm

9. Draft Forward Work Programme

The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:

  • Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG; and
  • Mr Rodney Allen, Chief Operating Officer.

The following Official joined the meeting remotely:

  • Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.

The Committee noted the draft Forward Work Programme from September 2021 to March 2022, including Ms Antoinette McKeown, CE Sports NI giving evidence on 18 November 2021 regarding the inquiry into 'Sport Sustainability Fund'; a briefing and preparation session regarding the eleventh inquiry, Strategic Review of the Budget Process' on 18 November 2021, and the evidence session on 25 November 2021.

The Committee noted the forthcoming Memorandum of Replies: MOR regarding Report into 'Generating Electricity from Renewable Energy' is due 18 November 2021; and the MOR for Report into 'Speeding up the Justice System' is due 16 December 2021.

The Committee noted there will be four reports ready for publishing in the New Year.

Mr Kieran Donnelly CB C&AG updated the Committee on forthcoming NIAO reports that may be of interest to the Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider NIAO forthcoming reports prior to Christmas Recess, in regards to primacy and those that may be released.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to publish the draft Forward Work Programme.

The meeting remained in Closed Session at 3.01 pm

10. Any Other Business

The Committee considered a proposal from the Clerk to form a WhatsApp Group that would assist with communication on operational issues.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to form a WhatsApp Group, with the option of opting out if Members do not wish to be in the WhatsApp Group.

11. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting

The next meeting of the Public Accounts Committee will take place on Thursday 18 November, at 2.00 pm in Room 30, Parliament Buildings.

The meeting adjourned at 3.01pm

 

Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA Chairperson

Public Accounts Committee

11 November 2021