Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee Relating to the Report
Committee for Finance
- 03 November 2021
- 24 November 2021
- 06 December 2021
- 13 December 2021
- 15 December 2021
- 05 January 2022
Minutes of Proceedings
3 November 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Dr Steve Aiken OBE MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Jim Allister MLA
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Apologies: Mr Maoliosa McHugh MLA
In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Carla Campbell (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Stephen Magee (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:02pm in closed session.
The Deputy Chairperson chaired proceedings.
Proceedings continued in open session from 2:12pm
3. Apologies
Apologies were as indicated above.
Maoliosa McHugh delegated authority to vote on his behalf to Philip McGuigan under Temporary Standing Order 115(6).
Jemma Dolan delegated authority to vote on her behalf to Philip McGuigan under Temporary Standing Order 115(6), in the event of an early departure.
Steve Aiken joined the meeting and chaired proceedings from 2:14pm.
8. Oral Evidence – Accelerated Passage for the Non-Domestic Rates (Coronavirus) Valuation Bill – Department of Finance
Departmental officials joined the meeting at 2:18pm.
Ian Snowden, Chief Executive of Land and Property Services, Department of Finance; and
Sharon Magee, Director of Rating Policy, Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
The Committee noted Departmental papers relating to the Bill and correspondence on overpayments relating to covid support schemes.
The oral evidence session was recorded by Hansard.
Jim Allister joined the meeting at 2:30pm.
Matthew O’Toole left the meeting at 3:17pm and delegated authority to vote on his behalf to Pat Catney under Temporary Standing Order 115(6).
The Chairperson thanked the officials for their evidence.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Minister of Finance calling upon him to raise awareness of the implications of the Bill with businesses and local government and seeking: an explanation of the estimated £250m adverse impact on business rates income; confirmation on the availability of the £50m Barnett consequential and confirmation also that this sum will be ring-fenced by a future Executive; further information on how business rates revaluation will take account of business success or failure during the pandemic; and links to general information for businesses on Reval2023.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Federation of Small Businesses and the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce in order to seek their views on the impact of the Bill.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Finance and the Department for the Economy in relation to Covid-19 business support scheme overpayments - seeking a table setting out the level of overpayment, recovery and write-off.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department for the Economy in relation to the Small Business Support Scheme and the application of the good faith principle to the write-off of payments made in error.
The meeting was adjourned at 4:38pm.
Dr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
10 November 2021
[Extract]
Minutes of Proceedings
24 November 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Dr Steve Aiken OBE MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Mr Jim Allister MLA
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Apologies: None
In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Carla Campbell (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Stephen Magee (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:00pm in public session.
3. Chairperson’s Business
3.1 Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill
The Chairperson advised the Committee that the Committee Stage for the Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill had commenced and would conclude no later than 25 January 2022.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to invite the NI Fiscal Council to comment on the Bill and the implications for the tax base for Northern Ireland.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek written and oral evidence from a number of stakeholders including: the Institute of Revenues Rating and Valuations, NI Chamber of Commerce, Retail NI, Federation of Small Businesses NI, Hospitality Ulster, NI Hotels Federation, NILGA and SOLACE and to hear oral evidence at an additional meeting on 6 December 2021. The Committee further agreed to seek oral and written responses from the Department at another additional meeting on 14 December 2021.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Examiner of Statutory Rules and seek her views on the delegated powers in the Bill.
The meeting was adjourned at 5:00pm.
Dr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
1 December 2021
[Extract]
Minutes of Proceedings
6 December 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Apologies:
Mr Steve Aiken MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Jim Allister MLA
In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Carla Campbell (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Stephen Magee (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:15pm in public session.
In the absence of the Chairperson, the Deputy Chairperson assumed the Chair.
1. Apologies
Apologies were as indicated above.
Jim Allister delegated authority to vote on his behalf to Jim Wells under Temporary Standing Order 115(6).
Jemma Dolan delegated authority to vote on her behalf to Maolíosa McHugh under Temporary Standing Order 115(6) in the event of her absence or non-attendance.
Philip McGuigan delegated authority to vote on his behalf to Maolíosa McHugh under Temporary Standing Order 115(6) in the event of his absence.
2. Declaration of Interests
Maolíosa McHugh declared an interest as a member of the Gaelic Athletic Association.
Philip McGuigan declared an interest as a member of the Gaelic Athletic Association and a member of Cycling Ireland.
Jim Wells declared an interest as a regular attendee at Windsor Park.
3. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Written Briefing
The Committee noted papers relating to the Non Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill and tabled correspondence from the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council.
4. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence – Hospitality Ulster and Northern Ireland Hotels Federation
The witnesses joined the meeting at 2:18pm.
- Mr Colin Neill, Chief Executive, Hospitality Ulster.
- Ms Janice Gault, Chief Executive, NI Hotels Federation.
The witnesses briefed the Committee.
Matthew O’Toole joined the meeting at 2:34pm.
Pat Catney joined the meeting at 2:45pm.
Jemma Dolan joined the meeting at 2:52pm.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their evidence.
5. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence – Retail NI and Federation of Small Business NI
The witnesses joined the meeting at 3:00pm.
- Mr Glyn Roberts, Chief Executive, Retail NI.
- Mr Roger Pollen, Head of Federation of Small Businesses NI.
The witnesses briefed the Committee.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
Philip McGuigan left the meeting at 3:16pm.
The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their evidence.
6. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence – NILGA and SOLACE NI
The witnesses joined the meeting at 4:00pm.
- Ms Karen Smyth, Head of Policy and Governance, NILGA.
- Mr JJ Tohill, SOLACE NI.
The witnesses briefed the Committee.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
Matthew O’Toole left the meeting at 4:22pm and delegated authority to vote on his behalf to Pat Catney under Temporary Standing Order 115(6).
The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their evidence.
7. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence – Sporting Organisations
The witnesses joined the meeting at 4:32pm.
- Patrick Nelson, Chief Executive, Irish Football Association.
- Graham Fitzgerald, Finance Director, Irish Football Association.
- Jonny Petrie, Chief Executive, Ulster Rugby.
- Audrey Robinson, Head of Finance and Operations, Ulster Rugby.
- Brian McAvoy, Provincial Secretary and CEO, Gaelic Athletic Association.
- Stephen McGeehan, Gaelic Athletic Association.
- Brian Mallon, Head of Finance, Human Resources and Business Development, Gaelic Athletic Association.
The witnesses briefed the Committee.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
Pat Catney left the meeting at 4:46pm.
The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their evidence.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department seeking:
- an explanation in respect of the rates valuation methodology for pubs, hotels and sporting stadii which appears to differ from the empty premises/hypothetical rent process which the Department previously explained.
- clarification as to whether the rates revaluation process will take account of recently reduced rents in the hospitality sector and improvements made to premises in response to covid restrictions including e.g. new beer gardens and additional pavement café seating.
- commentary on the proposals from stakeholders that the £50m Barnett consequential be targeted at particular sectors (possibly including district councils) with clearly defined criteria and scaled payments and that this would be made known prior to the passage of the Bill.
- commentary on the proposals from stakeholders that the provisions of the Bill be time bound or subject to a sunset clause so as to allow for changes to the valuation methodology in line with the evolving post-covid economic situation.
- clarification as to how the Department will distinguish between covid as a grounds for appeal and other matters including the impact on supply chain businesses which were not directly affected by covid restrictions and those businesses subject to wider covid economic impacts including e.g. reducing city footfall etc.
- commentary on the suggestion that the Bill might be amended such that the covid grounds for appeal would be removed only for those businesses that had been in receipt of substantial covid financial support in recent years.
- confirmation that the Department will improve its communications on covid and rates valuation issues to stakeholders including the provision of further information to district councils on the breakdown of the estimated £255m loss of rates income.
- an update on the numbers of non-domestic rates appeals.
- confirmation that the Bill will apply to the current coronavirus pandemic only and not any other pandemic including e.g. bird flu or other SARS infections.
The meeting was adjourned at 5:08pm.
Mr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
15 December 2021
[Extract]
Minutes of Proceedings
13 December 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Mr Steve Aiken MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Jim Allister MLA
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Apologies: None.
In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Carla Campbell (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Shirleen Cornelissen (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:17pm in public session.
1. Apologies
There were no apologies.
Jemma Dolan delegated authority to vote on her behalf to Maolíosa McHugh under Temporary Standing Order 115(6) in the event of her absence.
3. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence from the Institute of Revenues, Rating and Valuations
The witness joined the meeting at 2:18pm.
- Mr David Magor OBE, Chief Executive, Institute of Revenues Rating and Valuation.
The witness briefed the Committee.
Pat Catney joined the meeting at 2:21pm.
Jim Wells joined the meeting at 2:24pm.
Philip McGuigan joined the meeting at 2:26pm.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
The Chairperson thanked the witness for his evidence.
4. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Oral Evidence from the Department of Finance
The officials joined the meeting at 2:41pm.
- Ian Snowden, Chief Executive, Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
- Sharon Magee, Director of Rating Policy, Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
- Angela McGrath, Commissioner of Valuation, Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
The officials briefed the Committee.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
Jemma Dolan left the meeting at 2:57pm.
Matthew O’Toole left the meeting at 3:01pm.
Jim Allister left the meeting at 3:03pm.
The evidence session was reported by Hansard.
The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their evidence.
Proceedings continued in closed session from 3:36pm.
5. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Committee Deliberations
The Committee deliberated on the Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Finance seeking clarity on the inclusion of Covid-19 as an economic but not a physical impact on valuations.
6. Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Formal clause by clause scrutiny
Agreed: The Committee agreed to defer the clause by clause scrutiny of the Non-Domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill until 15 December 2021.
The meeting was adjourned at 3:49pm.
Mr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
5 January 2022
Minutes of Proceedings
15 December 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Dr Steve Aiken OBE MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Mr Jim Allister MLA
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Apologies: None
In Attendance: Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Carla Campbell (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Marion Johnston (Clerical Officer)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:02pm in public session.
Proceedings continued in closed session from 4:49pm.
Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Committee Deliberations
The Committee noted tabled Departmental correspondence and deliberated on the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill.
Proceedings continued in public session from 4:58pm.
13. Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Formal Clause by Clause Scrutiny
The officials joined the meeting at 4:59pm.
- Ian Snowden, Chief Executive of Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
- Andrew McAvoy, Rating Policy, Land and Property Services, Department of Finance.
The Committee also noted advice from the Examiner of Statutory Rules in respect of the delegated powers associated with the Bill.
Jim Wells left the meeting at 5:02pm.
The session was reported by Hansard.
The Committee commenced its formal clause by clause consideration of the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill.
Clause 1
The Committee considered Clause 1.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with Clause 1, as drafted.
Clause 2 and Short Title
The Committee considered Clause 2 including the Short Title.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with Clause 2 including the Short Title, as drafted.
Long Title
The Committee considered the Long Title.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Long Title, as drafted.
The Chairperson advised Members that the formal clause by clause scrutiny of the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill had concluded.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to instruct the Clerk to draft a report on the Committee Stage of the Bill, for its consideration.
The meeting was adjourned at 5:24pm.
Dr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
5 January 2022
[Extract]
Minutes of Proceedings
5 January 2022
Meeting Location: The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings
Present:
Dr Steve Aiken OBE MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Keith Buchanan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Pat Catney MLA
Mr Jim Wells MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Mr Jim Allister MLA
Ms Jemma Dolan MLA
Mr Philip McGuigan MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA
Apologies: None
In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Stephen Magee (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Heather Graham (Clerical Officer)
Proceedings commenced at 2:00pm in closed session.
Proceedings continued in open session from 2:11pm.
Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill – Committee Report
The Committee considered a draft of the report on the Committee Stage.
The Committee considered the Title Page, Table of Contents, Committee Membership and Powers and List of Abbreviations.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Title Page, Table of Contents, Committee Membership and Powers and List of Abbreviations, as drafted.
The Committee considered the Introduction section of the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Introduction section of the report, as drafted.
The Committee considered the Committee Approach and Acknowledgements sections of the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Committee Approach and Acknowledgements sections of the report, as drafted.
The Committee considered the Committee Deliberations section of the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Committee Deliberations section of the report, as drafted.
The Committee considered the Clause by Clause Scrutiny section of the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Clause by Clause Scrutiny section of the report, as drafted.
The Committee considered the list of Appendices in the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the list of Appendices in the report, as drafted.
The Committee considered the Executive Summary of the report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Executive Summary of the report, as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content for the Chairperson to approve an extract of the Minutes of Proceedings from today’s meeting that covers the consideration and approval of the Committee report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content for the Report on the Committee Stage of the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Billto be published as its 5th report of this mandate.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that an electronic copy of the Bill Report should be sent to all organisations and individuals who provided evidence to the Committee on the Bill.
Jim Allister indicated that although he accepted that the report was an accurate record of Committee deliberations, he intended to oppose the Bill at plenary.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Chairperson should include, in his formal remarks on the Bill, the Committee’s concerns in respect of ongoing pandemic restrictions and the need for assurance that the £50m Barnett consequential would be directed to support businesses and that other targeted supports would be provided, as required.
The Committee noted with pleasure the receipt of an MBE by Mr Colin Neill who had kindly provided evidence to the Committee Stage of the Bill.
The Committee recorded its thanks to the Clerk and Committee staff for the speedy production of the Bill Report.
The meeting was adjourned at 4:03pm.
Dr Steve Aiken MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
12 January 2022
[Extract]
