Committee for Finance

Minutes of Proceedings 27 November 2024

Committee for Finance minutes of proceedings 27 November 2024.pdf (208.36 kb)

Meeting Location: Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings, Belfast

Present:                   

Matthew O’Toole MLA (Chairperson)

Diane Forsythe MLA (Deputy Chairperson)

Phillip Brett MLA

Paul Frew MLA

Eóin Tennyson MLA

Deirdre Hargey MLA

Nicola Brogan MLA

Steve Aiken MLA

Gerry Carroll MLA

Apologies:               

None

In Attendance:       

Peter Hall Committee Clerk

Clairita Frazer Assistant Assembly Clerk

Sarah-Anne McKinley Assistant Assembly Clerk

Stephen Magee Clerical Supervisor

Heather Graham Clerical Officer

The meeting commenced at 1:58pm in public session.


1.    Apologies

As above.


2.    Declaration of Interests

None.


3.    Chairperson’s Business

3.1 Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland (SBNI)

The Chairperson referred Members to an invite from the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland to a conference looking at Systems to Support our People Embedding a Trauma Informed Approach on Thursday 23 January 2025 from 9.30am - 3.00pm at the Stormont Hotel Belfast. Members wishing to attend can register using the link provided.

3.2 Development Trusts NI

The Chairperson referred Members to a request from Development Trusts Northern Ireland to brief the Committee in relation to the introduction of a potential Wealth Building Fund.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to schedule an oral briefing as part of the Committee’s inquiry into the financial banking landscape.


4.    Draft Minutes of Proceedings

Agreed: The Committee agreed the Minutes of Proceedings from the meeting of 20 November 2024.


5.    Matters Arising

5.1 Department of Finance - Public Sector Transformation Board

The Committee noted correspondence from the Department in relation to the Public Transformation Board. The Committee requested more information on the 29 proposals selected to move forward. A brief summary of what exactly the projects are, their purpose and aims; the value of each project; and clarification on whether or not these projects were already in progress before being selected to move forward have been sent to the Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the information provided to other Statutory Committees with a view to those Committees pursuing further briefings from their respective Departments.

5.9 Head of the Civil Service - Public Sector Transformation Board

The Committee noted correspondence from the Head of the Civil Service following the briefing with the Committee on the 23 October on the work of the Interim PTSB and on the implementation of the RHI Inquiry recommendations.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to ask the Department for clarity on the role of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in agreeing the terms of reference for the Public Sector Transformation Board and where he sits in the Board’s governance structure.

5.2 Justice Committee - Northern Ireland Policing Board response to draft Programme for Government

The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Justice regarding the Northern Ireland Policing Board response to the draft Programme for Government. The response has been copied to the Committee.

5.3 Justice Committee - Department of Justice October Monitoring Round 2024-25 Position

The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Justice in relation to the October Monitoring Round 2024-25 Position. A copy of the written paper from the Department of Justice as submitted to the Department of Finance on 25 October 2024 has been copied to the Committee.

5.4 Justice Committee - Consideration of amendment to the NICS Handbook

The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Justice regarding concerns of the use of the NICS inefficiency sickness absence procedures in respect of dealing with prison custody officers and other prison service staff. The Committee has suggested that as part of the review of Civil Service sickness absence policies in 2024/25, an Annex to the handbook could be considered to reflect these distinct circumstances.

Steve Aiken declared an interest regarding making representations on behalf of his constituents regarding sickness absence issues relating to prison officers.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to ask the Department of Finance for its views on the merits of providing such an annex.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Justice Committee indicating that this Committee has also raised these issues with the Department.

5.5 Written Ministerial Statement by Health Minister - Budget Assessment 

The Committee noted a written ministerial statement by the Health Minister to the Assembly in relation to detailing the current financial position for the health and social care system.

5.6 City Deal Projects - Belfast City Council

The Committee noted a list of the twenty current Belfast Region City Deal Projects. The Committee has already agreed to schedule visits to suitable projects as part of its Forward Work Programme.

5.7 Examiner of Statutory Rules - 27th Report

The Committee noted a 27th report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules.  At its meeting on the 20 November the Committee agreed that it was content with SR 2024/191 The Building (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 subject to the Examiner’s Report. The Examiner has now reported on the rule and not drawn any matters to the special attention of the Assembly.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to obtain clarity from the Department on how the term, “a person with fire safety duties”, is defined in the context of the SR.

5.8 Secretary of State - Northern Ireland Executive Restoration Package Settlement

The Committee noted correspondence from the Secretary of State (SoS) regarding the Northern Ireland Executive Restoration Package. The SoS has indicated that an agreement has been reached to move to the next stage of Fiscal Framework discussions and that more time is needed to ensure that any further agreement on the long-term fiscal framework is robust and will support the fiscal sustainability of NI’s public finances.

The SoS also indicated that whilst he does not believe it would be appropriate for NIO officials to appear in front of Assembly Committees, he wishes to work constructively and collaboratively with the Northern Ireland Executive towards the full implementation of the Restoration Package.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to respond to the Secretary of State and a letter will be drafted by the Clerk to be brought back to the Committee for consideration before sending.


6.    Ministerial Update - Oral Briefing from the Department

The following representatives joined the meeting at 2.12pm.

Dr Caoimhe Archibald - Minister for Finance

Neil Gibson - Permanent Secretary, DoF

Joanne McBurney - Budget Director and Head of Public Spending Directorate, DoF

The officials briefed the Committee on the Executive Finances and the Budget for 2025-2026, the interim Fiscal Framework, the work of Interim Public Sector Transformation Board and banking engagement.

The briefing was followed by a question and answer session.

A number of issues were discussed including taxation powers, Autumn Budget challenges and the Registration of Deaths and Stillbirths Bill.

Deirdre Hargey left the meeting at 3.38pm and returned at 3.47pm.

Phillip Brett left the meeting at 3.28pm and returned at 3.44pm.

The Minister left the meeting at 3.37pm.

Gerry Carroll left the meeting at 3.50pm and returned at 3.51pm.

Steve Aiken left the meeting at 3.51pm and returned 3.52pm.

Diane Forsythe left the meeting at 3.57pm and returned at 3.59pm.

The officials left the meeting at 4.00pm.


7. Departmental Solicitors Office Overview - Oral Briefing from the Department

The following representatives joined the meeting at 4.01pm;

Joanne Timoney – Deputy Departmental Solicitor Resources, DSO

Ross Thompson - Director, Advisory Division 4, DSO

The officials briefed the Committee on the work of the DSO.

Phillip Brett left the meeting at 4.02pm and returned at 4.13pm.

The briefing was followed by a question and answer session.

A number of issues were discussed including the legislative provision for Baby Loss Certification and staffing structures within DSO.

Gerry Carroll declared an interest as having a live consultation for a PMB on the People's Housing Bill.

The officials left the meeting at 4.30pm.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to ask the Department for further information in relation to the headcount within DSO including a breakdown of roles over the last ten years and the number of vacancies.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Finance Minister to ask if DSO and OLC are adequately resourced and equipped.  


8.    Outturn & Forecast Outturn – Written Briefing

The Committee considered a written paper from the Department regarding the Outturn and Forecast Outturn Data for November 2024-2025.

The briefing was followed by a question and answer session.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward this written briefing to the other Statutory Committees and the Audit Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to schedule an oral briefing with Departmental officials on the next Outturn and Forecast Outturn (December 2024-2025) in January 2025 as part of its FWP.


9.    Correspondence

i. The Committee noted correspondence and a number of working papers from the Department of Accounting in University of Ulster in relation to Gender Budgeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed for the Clerk to liaise with the academics and RaISe to bring this issue forward to the Committee with suggested actions.

ii. The Committee noted a report from the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels on the work of the office for July to September 2024.

iii. The Committee noted correspondence from the Northern Ireland Youth Assembly regarding its response on the draft Programme for Government 2024-2027.

iv. The Committee noted a report from the Public Accounts Committee in relation to Public Procurement in Northern Ireland.

Diane Forsythe declared an interest as a Member of the Public Accounts Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed for the Clerk to liaise with RaISe to request further information on procurement best practice.

v. The Committee noted the Annual Report of the Registrar General for 2023.

vi. The Committee noted the 26th Report of Examiner of Statutory Rules. There are no rules referenced which are relevant to Committee.


10. Draft Forward Work Programme

The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme, as drafted.

The Committee noted the following evidence sessions as part of the Forward Work Programme:

  • The informal meeting with Business Coalition will take place on Monday 9 December between 11-12pm.
  • The Meeting for the 15 January 2025 will include an oral evidence session on the Budget Sustainability Annexes.
  • Oral Evidence sessions for Banking Inquiry will begin on 15 January 2025.
  • The Joint Budget Event with the Committee for Economy will take place on 29 January 2025.
  • An Oral Briefing on Spring Supplementary Estimates has been scheduled for the meeting on the 5 February 2025.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Forward Work Programme should be published on the Committee webpages.


11. Any Other Business

The Chairperson offered apologies for the Committee’s next meeting and the Deputy Chairperson indicated that she would be present via Zoom for only part of the next meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that Dr Steve Aiken, subject to availability, would take the Chair as appropriate for the Committee’s meeting on 4 December 2024.


12. Date and Time of next meeting

The next Committee meeting will be held on Wednesday 4 December 2024 at 2:00pm Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings.

The meeting was adjourned at 4:53pm

Steve Aiken MLA

Chairperson, Committee for Finance

04 December 2024