Committee for Finance

Minutes of proceedings, 21 May 2025

Committee for Finance, minutes of proceedings 21 May 2025.pdf (215.08 kb)

Meeting Location: Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings

Present:                   

Matthew O’Toole MLA (Chairperson)

Diane Forsythe MLA (Deputy Chairperson)

Phillip Brett MLA

Gerry Carroll MLA

Jemma Dolan MLA (from 2.04pm)

Paul Frew MLA

Eoin Tennyson MLA

Apologies:                None

Virtual:                      

Steve Aiken MLA

Jemma Dolan MLA (until 2.03pm)

Deirdre Hargey MLA

In Attendance:       

Peter Hall Committee Clerk

Clairita Frazer Assistant Assembly Clerk

Tom Armstrong Assistant Assembly Clerk

Stephen Magee Clerical Supervisor

Heather Graham Clerical Officer

The meeting commenced at 1.14pm in public session.

1. Apologies

None.

2. Declaration of Interests

None.

3. Chairperson’s Business

3.1. Balmoral Show

The Committee reflected on its time at the Balmoral Show on Wednesday 14^th May and on the useful engagement in relation to its Banking survey. The Chairperson thanked those Members who attended the show. Members also thanked the Committee and Communications staff who facilitated the event.

3.2. Minister of Finance – Budget Bill Accelerated Passage

The Committee considered correspondence from the Minister of Finance regarding the Budget (No.2) Bill and request for Accelerated Passage. Members noted that briefing papers and copies of the 2025-26 Main Estimates will be provided to the Committee and that an oral briefing from officials is scheduled to take place next week; Wednesday 28th May 2025.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to note the correspondence, at this stage, in anticipation of an oral briefing with Departmental officials at the meeting on 28^th May 2025.

3.3. Northern Ireland Youth Assembly Newsletter

The Committee noted the latest update from the Northern Ireland Youth Assembly.

3.4. Association of British Insurers – Request for sight of correspondence

The Committee considered a request from the Association of British Insurers for sight of correspondence from the Infrastructure Committee to the Finance Committee regarding the Motor Insurance Taskforce.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the correspondence indicating the context of the correspondence.

3.5. Banking & Financial Services Landscape Inquiry

Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to UK Finance to seek details of how local bank operations fit into the wider business structures of those banks operating in Northern Ireland, as well as details of changes in lending decision-making and autonomy to lend by local bank branches/operations and the impact that these changes have had.

4. Draft Minutes of Proceedings

Agreed: The Committee agreed the Minutes of Proceedings from the meeting of the 7^th May 2025.

5. Matters Arising

5.1. Minister of Finance – Income and Charges generated by the Department for Communities

The Committee noted correspondence from the Minister of Finance regarding the recording of income and fees generated by the Department for Communities following comments made by the Fiscal Council.

5.2. Department of Finance – Budget Sustainability 5 year Departmental Plans Guidance

The Committee considered correspondence from the Department of Finance regarding 5 year Departmental Plans and guidance which has been formally commissioned by the Department of Finance.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to share the correspondence with other Statutory Committees.

5.3. House of Commons Treasury Committee Report on the Acceptance of Cash

The Committee considered a report published by a House of Commons Treasury Committee report on Acceptance of Cash.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to note and add the report to the Committee’s evidence base for the Banking and Financial Services Landscape Inquiry.

5.4. Committee for the Economy correspondence – Causeway Coast and Glens – City & Growth Deal

The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for the Economy to the Department of Finance regarding a number of local issues relating to the Causeway Coast and Glens City & Growth Deal.

5.5. DALO Readout extract of requests made following 30^th April meeting

The Committee noted the DALO readout extract issued following the Committee meeting on 30^th April 2025.

5.6. DALO Readout response - Incorrect URL on Rates Bill

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding the publication of an incorrect URL on Rates Bills.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to request that it is updated again when the learning review is complete.

5.7. DALO Readout response - Welsh Parliament Finance Committee Report – Financial Transactions Capital

The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance regarding the Welsh Parliament Finance Committee report on Financial Transactions Capital, the recommendations within it and the Welsh Government’s response to same.

5.8. DALO Readout response - Cost of Doing Business research

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding of the Cost of Doing Business research by Gareth Hetherington.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to note the response pending a further update on the application of the research.

5.9. DALO Readout response - Capital Overspend Position

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding sales of Clarence Court and Victoria Hall which has led to a capital overspend position.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to note this response pending a related oral briefing from officials at the meeting on 28^th May 2025.

5.10. DALO Readout response - NICS People Strategy 2025-30

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding the NICS People Strategy 2025-30.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to ask the Department of Finance for clarification on a number of issues including; who will have visibility of the Organisational Dashboard (a metric within the Strategy), details of what the dashboard will look like and specific information on the data contained within the dashboard.

5.11. DALO Readout response - Prof Holtham’s review of level of need analysis

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding Prof Holtham’s review of level of need analysis. Members noted that this would be discussed later in today’s meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to note this response pending the oral briefing later in today’s meeting.

5.12. DALO Readout response - Replacement UK Government Funds

The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance regarding an update on replacement UKG funds following the Comprehensive Spending Review in June.

5.13. DALO Readout response - Public Accounts Committee Report – Major Capital Projects

The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance regarding the Public Accounts Committee Report – Major Capital Projects.

5.14. DALO Readout response - Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding the Keeling schedule for the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek information on the Keeling schedule from the Office of Legislative Counsel.

5.15. DALO Readout response - Procurement Strategy

The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance regarding the impact of the social value policy on procurement.

5.16. DALO Readout response - NI Water Budget

The Committee considered a response from the Department of Finance regarding the NI Water Budget.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to copy the response to the Committee for Infrastructure.

5.26. Committee for Infrastructure – NI Water – Financial Position

The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for Infrastructure regarding its deliberations in relation to NI Water’s financial position.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to ask for an update from the Committee for Infrastructure in due course.

5.17. DALO Readout response – Annual Accounts Deadlines

The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance regarding adherence of designated bodies (including Arm’s Length Bodies) to statutory deadlines in respect of Annual Reports.

5.18. DALO Readout response – Review of Arm’s Length Bodies

The Committee noted that a response from the Department of Finance regarding Review of Arm’s Length Bodies would follow.

5.19. Department of Finance – City & Growth Deals Quarterly Progress Report

The Committee considered the latest quarterly update report for the City & Growth Deals Quarterly Progress Report.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to schedule an oral update briefing on City & Growth Deals at its meeting on 11^th June 2024, at Studio Ulster, Belfast.

5.20. Department of Finance – 2025-26 Budget

The Committee noted a copy of the 2025-26 Budget.

5.21. Department of Finance – 2025-26 June Monitoring Commissioning

The Committee considered a notification from the Department of Finance that it has formally commissioned returns from Departments in respect of June Monitoring.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to update other Statutory Committees and the Assembly Audit Committee on the commissioning deadline.

5.22. Public Accounts Committee – Primacy Decisions

The Committee noted correspondence from the Public Accounts Committee regarding primacy over NI Audit Office Reports.

5.23. Executive Office Committee – Ending Violence against Women and Girls

The Committee noted copy correspondence from The Executive Office Committee to the Minister of Finance welcoming the Department of Finance’s contribution to the Ending Violence against Women and Girls Strategy.

5.24. Committee for Infrastructure – Disaggregation of Programme for Government Priorities 2025-26

The Committee noted copy correspondence between the Committee for Infrastructure and the Department of Finance regarding disaggregation of final budget allocations against Programme for Government priorities.

Steve Aiken joined the meeting at 1.48pm.

5.25. Committee for Infrastructure – A5 Western Transport Corridor

The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Infrastructure in relation to that Committee’s deliberations on required qualifications for Land Agents.

5.27. House of Lords NI Scrutiny Committee – Correspondence to Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

The Committee considered correspondence between the House of Lords NI Scrutiny Committee and the Secretary of State for NI on EU Regulation regarding emission standards.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the correspondence to the Committee for Infrastructure.

5.28. House of Lords NI Scrutiny Committee – Correspondence to Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

The Committee noted correspondence between the House of Lords NI Scrutiny Committee and the Secretary of State for NI on EU Regulation regarding implications for NI Exporters of tariffs and related matters.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider the agenda items 6-9 together.

6. SL1 The Legal Complaints and Regulation (2016 Act) (Commencement) Order (Northern Ireland) 2025

7. SL1 The Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (Northern Ireland) 2016 (Levy) Regulations 2025

8. SL1 The Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (Northern Ireland) 2016 (Appeals) Regulations 2025

9. SL1 The Legal Complaints and Regulation (Penalty) Order (Northern Ireland) 2025

The Committee noted proposals by the Department of Finance for statutory rules to commence the powers of a Legal Services Oversight Commissioner. Members noted clarification from the Department of Finance regarding correspondence in respect of a Commencement Order. Members noted that with the exception of the Commencement Order, which will be subject to negative resolution procedure, the other three proposed statutory rules will be subject to draft affirmative resolution procedure.

The following officials joined the meeting at 1.50pm:

David Hughes Director of Corporate Services Division

Jonathan McNaught Grade 7 Corporate Services Division

Marion Cree Legal Services Oversight Commissioner

The officials briefed the Committee on the proposed subordinate legislation. The briefing was followed by a question and answer session.

A number of issues were discussed including; work progressed since the 2016 Act received Royal Assent, differences in the role of the Commissioner on commencement of the subordinate legislation, potential financial impact and timeframe for full implementation.

Eoin Tennyson left the meeting at 2.09pm.

Gerry Carroll joined the meeting at 2.14pm.

Phillip Brett joined the meeting at 2.22pm.

The Chairperson thanked the officials for their attendance and the officials left the meeting at 2.28pm.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that whilst it was content with the policy proposals, it would seek further clarification on a number of issues including; what mechanism will be used to set the levy for the Law Society and Bar Council, estimates of the levy,  estimated financial implications to set up and operate the Commissioner’s office once fully established.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to both the Law Society and Bar Council seeking both their comments on the subordinate legislation and confirmation that they are content that all necessary structures are in place for the anticipated change.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek comments from the Committee for Justice in respect of responsibility for this area given cross Departmental remit, as well as seeking that Committee’s view of whether this area might more appropriately sit within the Justice remit.

The Committee noted that the Department of Finance will be making a Commencement order to bring into force provisions within the Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (NI) 2016

Agreed: The Committee for Finance agreed that it was content with the proposed Statutory Rule to detail the levy that is to be imposed on the Law Society of Northern Ireland and the Honourable Society of the Inn of Court (i.e. the Bar Council) under sections 5 and 6 of the Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (NI) 2016.

Agreed: The Committee for Finance agreed that it was content with the proposed Statutory Rule to specify the circumstances in which appeals may be made to the High Court against determinations made by the Complaints Committee of either the Law Society (section 38 of the Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (NI) 2016) or the Honourable Society of the Inn of Court (i.e. the Bar Council) (section 19 of the Legal Complaints and Regulation Act (NI) 2016).

Agreed: The Committee for Finance agreed that it was content with the proposed Statutory Rule to set the maximum amount(s) the Legal Services Oversight Commissioner may require the Law Society or the Honourable Society of the Inn of Court (i.e. the Bar Council) to pay as a penalty should the professional body either fail to submit a plan which the Commissioner considers adequate for the handling of complaints or fail to handle complaints in accordance with its plan.

10. SL1 The Whole of Government Accounts (Designation of Bodies) Order (Northern Ireland) 2025

The Committee noted a proposal by the Department for a statutory rule to enable the Department of Finance to request information from Departments and Bodies (designated in the Order) and to pass this information to HM Treasury  for use in the Whole of Government Accounts. Members noted that this is an annual process and that there have been no bodies added or removed since last year.

Members also noted that the proposed rule will be subject to negative resolution procedure before the Assembly.

Agreed: The Committee for Finance agreed that it was content with the proposed Statutory Rule to enable the Department of Finance to request information from Departments and Bodies (designated in the Order) and to pass this information to HM Treasury – for use in the Whole of Government Accounts.

11. The Public Service Pensions (Exercise of Powers Compensation and Information) (Amendment) Directions (Northern Ireland) 2025

The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Finance on necessary subordinate legislation to implement the remedy for age discrimination in devolved public service pension schemes, arising from the “McCloud” ruling.

Members noted that the Department proposes to make further amendment Directions in this regard which will clarify existing provision and provide additional flexibility to streamline remedy processes. Members also noted that the Directions are not subject to any Assembly procedure and are made upon signature of a senior officer in the Department of Finance.

Steve Aiken declared an interest as the Chair of the Body which oversees MLA pensions.

12. Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill – Oral Briefing from Assembly Research and Information Service (RaISe)

Agreed: Members agreed that the oral briefing should be reported by Hansard and that the research paper would be added to the Bill’s evidence base, Committee webpages and Committee report in due course.

Eoin Tennyson joined the meeting at 2.32pm.

The following official joined the meeting at 2.32pm:

Sinéad McMurray     Research Officer

The official provided the Committee with a brief overview of the RaISe paper and its conclusions. The briefing was followed by a question and answer session. Members discussed the specifics in relation to a Baby Loss Scheme.

Deirdre Hargey left the meeting at 2.35pm

The Chairperson thanked the official for their attendance and the official left the meeting at 2.44pm.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the research paper and copy of the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill to other Statutory Committees seeking written comments on the Bill’s provisions.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek clarification from the Department of Finance on a query raised by Gerry Carroll MLA during Question Time on Monday 19^th May 2025 concerning a potential inequality in birth registration which could be faced by unmarried same sex couples living in Northern Ireland and undertaking IVF treatment in the Republic of Ireland.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider Correspondence.

15. Correspondence

i. The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for Communities regarding work in relation to NICS employment contracts, recruitment processes, staff complements, agency workers and hybrid workforce management practices.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to inform the Communities Committee that the Finance Committee would be undertaking work related to many issues referenced in the correspondence in the Autumn and will update all Statutory Committees in due course.

ii. The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Justice regarding provisions within the forthcoming Sentencing Bill.

iii. The Committee noted a Hansard Transcript of the oral briefing with the Minister of Finance which took place on the 7^th May 2025.

iv. The Committee noted the 37^th and 38^th Report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules.

13. NI Banking and Financial Services Landscape Inquiry – Oral Briefing – Finance Innovation Lab

Agreed: Members agreed that the oral briefing should be reported by Hansard.

The Committee considered a written submission from Finance Innovation Lab and research paper on the impact of a Fair Banking Act.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to add both to the Inquiry’s evidence base, Committee webpages and report in due course.

The following witness joined the meeting via Zoom at 2.47pm:

Sam Rex-Edwards Head of Movement Building & Campaigns, Finance Innovation Lab

The witness provided the Committee with an overview of the case for a Fair Banking Act. The briefing was followed by a question and answer session. A number of issues were discussed including de-banking, availability of credit, how credit unions would benefit from a Fair Banking Act, interaction with the Access to Credit Sub-Committee and political support for a Fair Banking Act.

The Chairperson thanked the witness for their attendance and the witness left the meeting at 3.10pm.

The Committee considered clarification provided by the Association of British Insurers to Jemma Dolan following its oral evidence session on 7^th May 2025, in relation to penalty points and motoring convictions.

The Committee also considered information provided by Danske Bank following its oral evidence session on 9^th April 2025, in relation to ethical focus, cross-border banking, charitable support and risk.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to add both items to the Inquiry’s evidence base, Committee webpages and report in due course.

Members noted a Hansard transcript of the oral evidence session with the Association of British Insurers on 7^th May 2025, which would be added to the Committee’s Inquiry report in due course.

14. Interim Fiscal Framework – Oral Briefing by Department of Finance

The Committee considered a number of relevant supporting papers including correspondence from the Minister to the Secretary of State for NI enclosing a copy of Prof Holtham’s Review, the Budget Improvement Plan Roadmap and 5 year Departmental plans guidance. Members considered a request from the Department of Finance to discuss the Holtham Review in confidence. Members discussed the need to understand the reasons for the Department’s request as well as the need to understand the timeline for publication of Prof Holtham’s Review.

The following Department of Finance officials joined the meeting at 3.15pm:

Tony Simpson Deputy Secretary, Strategic Policy and Reform

Aidan McMahon Director, Fiscal Policy Division

Maryann Smith Director, Central Expenditure Division.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to move into closed session at 3.24pm.

The officials briefed the Committee on Professor Holtham’s Review and how it would be factored into negotiations with Treasury and the Comprehensive Spending Review in June.

The Committee returned to open session at 3.54pm.

The officials briefed the Committee on current workstreams to support the Fiscal Framework. The briefing was followed by a question and answer session. A number of issues were discussed including; transformation, budget sustainability, the Digital Maturity Project, level of need and relative funding per head methodology.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek confirmation from the Department of Finance about when it expects to publish Professor  Holtham’s Review.

The Chairperson thanked the officials for their attendance and the officials left the meeting at 4.19pm.

16. Draft Forward Work Programme

The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme, as drafted.

The Committee noted that the Committee meeting next week would be starting at 1pm in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.

Members also noted upcoming evidence sessions which had been scheduled. 

Agreed: The Committee agreed to explore the potential of holding an informal meeting on 4^th June.

Members discussed how social media channels could be used to publicise the Committee’s work in relation to the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill and the Banking and Financial Services Landscape Inquiry.

Agreed: The Committee agree to request a briefing from the Department of Finance on the outcome of the Comprehensive Spending Review as close to the 11^th June as possible.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Forward Work Programme should be published on the Committee webpages.

17. Any Other Business

None.

18. Date and Time of next meeting

The next Committee meeting will be held on Wednesday 28^th May 2025 at 1.00pm in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.

The meeting was adjourned at 4.27pm.

Matthew O’Toole

Chairperson, Committee for Finance

28^th May 2025