COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY, 30 MAY 2002 ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Dr Ian Adamson MLA
Mr Arthur Doherty MLA
Mr David Hilditch MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew Peoples
Mr Colin Jones
Mr Paul Stitt
Mr John McVey (Northern Ireland Assembly Research)

Apologies:
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr John Kelly MLA

The meeting opened at 2.07pm in open session. The Chairman informed members that Mr Hilditch had replaced Mr Hay on the Committee for Employment and Learning.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of 23 May 2002

Agreed as amended. Proposed: Mr Doherty.Seconded: Mr Hutchinson.

3. Matters Arising

Mrs Nelis queried the possibility of asking the Minister to brief the Committee on gap funding from the European Union (EU). The Chairman informed her that the Committee had already agreed to invite Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) officials to brief the Committee on their role in administering EU funds and that it was hoped to schedule this prior to the summer recess. He also stated that many of the issues around gap funding were the responsibility of the Department of Finance and Personnel.

4. Correspondence

Members considered the Minister's response to the Committee's submission on DEL's original draft Position Report on the Budget 2002 process, together with an updated Report. It was agreed to follow up on several areas of information requested by the Committee, which had not been provided.

Action: Clerk

Members noted further bids from DEL for support from the Executive Programme Infrastructure Fund. It was noted that the Executive had commissioned these bids following the Chancellor's announcement of the increase in the Executive's borrowing facility and that the Executive's deadline had allowed no time for consultation with Assembly Committees. It was agreed to return to this area when the outcome of the bids was announced.

2.20pm. Prof McWilliams joined the meeting.

Members considered a letter from Miss U Molloy, a student, asking how the major problems relating to student welfare in Northern Ireland were being addressed. Members agreed to issue a copy of their report on 'Student Finance', the relevant recommendations from their Inquiry into 'Education and Training for Industry' and details of Dr Farren's package of student support proposals. Miss Molloy's letter should also be forwarded to DEL for a response.

Action: Clerk

Members considered correspondence raising concerns at the administration of the Worktrack programme. It was agreed to forward these to DEL for clarification and a full written response.

Action: Clerk

Members considered a letter from the Committee for Social Development on the pilot of the ONE service. As the Minister for Employment and Learning had just forwarded further information on the interim evaluation of the pilot, the Committee agreed to return to this at a future meeting.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the Minister's response on the functions of the Learning and Skills Advisory Board, along with details of the membership, remuneration and expenses in respect of DEL's Non Departmental Public Bodies and Consultative Committees. Members noted the Department's intention to review the arrangements for the remuneration of governors of Further Education Colleges.

Members directed the Clerk to acquire the membership details provided on the basis of geographical spread.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed to write to the Minister for further detail on the value-for-money provided by the Learning and Skills Advisory Board in relation to the remuneration to members in the last financial year of over £62k.

Action: Clerk

The Clerk was also directed to obtain a complete list of membership of all NDPBs in Northern Ireland.

Action: Clerk

Members considered further correspondence from Belfast learndirect in relation to the Minister's recent response on the learndirect network. It was agreed to include this in the letter to the Minister.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the following correspondence:

  • from the General Consumer Council, offering to give oral or written evidence to the Committee on any appropriate policy areas in the future;
  • a written brief from the Women's Support Network on 'Sustaining the Community-Based Women's Sector';
  • a written brief outlining the work of Parents and Professionals and Autism (PAPA);
  • notification from the Committee for Finance and Personnel that further bids have been invited from departments for support from Executive Programme Funds;
  • the first Report from the Public Sector Energy Committee;
  • a paper from Assembly Research on the implications of the Burns' Report for DEL. This had originally been issued in January 2001, but had been requested again by members;
  • an Assembly Research paper on 'Student Disciplinary Policies and Procedures,'
  • a response from the Minister that access to further education will be addressed in the strategic review of the sector; and
  • notification from the Minister of all organisations in receipt of core funding from DEL.
  • Briefing from the Civic Forum on their Report - 'Educational Disadvantage: a Civic Discussion'

Members were briefed by Ms J Chapman, Ms E McNulty and Mr I Humes from the Civic Forum. Following an introductory presentation, the following issues were debated with members:

2.55pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting.

  • the relationship between underachievement and social disadvantage;
  • the potential policy implications of their report for adult learning and the tertiary education sector;
  • how the proposed People's Education Network would help to address the problems relating to adult literacy;
  • the importance of teacher training and further professional development for teachers;
  • funding for community groups vis-à-vis secondary schools; and
  • the need for a one-stop shop to deal with returning adult learners.

3.20pm. Mr Hutchinson joined the meeting.
3.30pm. Mr Hilditch joined the meeting.

  • Briefing from Northern Ireland Assembly Research on the Department for Employment and Learning's Consultation Document: 'Essential Skills for Living'

The following areas were covered in the briefing from Northern Ireland Assembly Research:

  • the scale of the problem of adult literacy and the importance of essential skills;
  • the key elements of DEL's strategy;
  • the framework and capacity building phases of the strategy;
  • the proposed resources available to address the issue of essential skills;
  • DEL's targets to increase the number of returning adult learners; and
  • practical ways in which partnerships could be forged to address needs in this area.

Following the briefing, members debated the key issues for inclusion in the Committee's response to the consultation document and directed the Clerk to draft a response for consideration at the meeting of 13 June 2002.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed to write to the Minister requesting further detail on the EU initiative of National Employment Plans.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the response from the Minister of Finance and Personnel in relation to the Europe-wide methodological review of the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS).

Members noted the response from the Committee of the Centre in relation to the Essential Skills for Living strategy.

7. Legislation

Members considered a pre-draft Statutory Rule under the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986. Members were content with the policy implications of the draft legislation, but agreed to seek clarification on the proposed reduction in categories for overseas students.

Action: Clerk

Members considered a pre-draft Statutory Rule under the Industrial Training (Northern Ireland) Order 1984. Members were content with the policy implications of the draft legislation, but agreed to request a written brief from DEL, outlining the efficiency and effectiveness of training in the construction sector, which was financed mainly through a system of compulsory levies.

Action: Clerk

8. Chairman's Business

The Chairman informed members that, as previously agreed, he and the Deputy Chairman had met with the Minister. In particular, the delays with the Fulton Report on Careers Education and Guidance were discussed and the Minister had acknowledged the possibility of interim changes in this area, pending decisions on the implementation of the Burns' Report, which could affect future provision in this area.

The Chairman updated members on his recent meeting with representatives from the Electrical Training Trust on the current arrangements for the Modern Apprenticeship programme. They had expressed concern that the programme would become fragmented and could be difficult to monitor if direct responsibility was passed back to Further Education Colleges. They agreed that such a system had not worked well prior to 1998. Mrs Nelis stated that she had been in discussions with representatives from the North West Institute of Further and Higher Education (NWIFHE), on the considerable drop in the number of apprentices coming onto these courses. NWIFHE would prefer to have responsibility for the courses returned to them.

4.15pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting.

The Committee agreed to request a written brief from the Department on the Modern Apprenticeship programme and that an oral briefing would be requested in the future. Members noted that DEL was soon to review the Electrical Training Trust.

Action: Clerk

The Chairman also informed members of his meeting with representatives from the Simon Community, who had raised concerns at the inflexibility of the New Deal programme in providing employment opportunities for the homeless. It was agreed that the Foyer scheme was an example of outstanding practice in providing outcomes leading to employment and the Clerk was directed to arrange a visit to such a centre in the future.

Action: Clerk

9. Any Other Business

The Committee considered options from DEL on arrangements to meet with the Minister to discuss the proposed merger of the Northern Ireland Hotel and Catering College with the University of Ulster. It was agreed to invite the Minister on Tuesday 11 June 2002 at 12.30pm, with the Committee meeting beforehand at 12 noon. Lunch would be provided.

Action: Clerk

10. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting

On Thursday 6 June 2002 at 2.00pm in Room 152 Parliament Buildings, to include a briefing from Northern Ireland Assembly Research on the Employment Bill. The Chairman also reminded members of the event organised with the Association of University Teachers to follow the Committee meeting at 3.15pm in the Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 4.25pm.

Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning

6 June 2002