Committee for Education

Agreed General Record of Informal Meeting - Monday 4 May 2020

Present:
Mr Chris Lyttle MLA (Chairperson)
Ms Karen Mullan MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Robbie Butler MLA
Ms Catherine Kelly MLA
Mr Daniel McCrossan MLA
Mr Justin McNulty MLA
Mr Robin Newton MBE MLA

Apologies:
Mr William Humphrey MLA
In Attendance: Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Mark McQuade (Assistant Clerk)
Mr Ian McAdam (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Ed McCann (Clerical Officer)

The informal meeting commenced at 2.02pm – all Members, staff and officials joined the meeting by teleconference.

1. Apologies

Apologies as recorded above.

2. Chairs Business

The Chairperson reminded members that the Minister would be making a statement on the School Enhancement Programme on Tuesday 5 May 2020.

3. Childcare Sector Informal Briefing – Oral briefing

The Committee noted briefing papers from: Playboard, Early Years, Employers for Childcare, and Employers Forum for Early Years Playwork and Childminders.

The Committee also noted a copy of Department of Health correspondence to childcare providers regarding access to the £12m of childcare support measures.

Witnesses joined the informal meeting by teleconference at 2.03pm:

Pauline Walmsley, Chief Executive, Early Years;
Mark Feeney, Consultant, Early Years;
Patricia Lewsley-Mooney CBE, Chief Executive, Northern Ireland Childminders Association;
Jacqueline O'Loughlin, Chief Executive, Playboard

Witnesses briefed the Committee on the coronavirus issues facing the childcare sector.

Mr McCrossan joined the meeting at 2.22pm.
Mr McNulty joined the meeting at 2:23pm

This was followed by a question and answer session.

The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their attendance.

Witnesses joined the informal meeting by teleconference at 2.52pm:

Philip Dalgity, Northern Ireland Daycare Owners;
Aoife Hamilton, Policy and Information Manager, Employers for Childcare; and
Diane Koplewsky, Employers Forum for Early Years Playwork and Childminders.

Witnesses briefed the Committee on the coronavirus issues facing the childcare sector.

This was followed by a question and answer session.

Mr Butler left the meeting at 3.17pm.
Mr McNulty left the meeting at 3.35pm.

The Chairperson thanked the witnesses for their attendance.

The Committee informally agreed that the Chairperson should write to the Minister of Education and the Minister for Health indicating its concerns in respect of delays to the provision of the £12m of support for the childcare sector. The Committee also informally agreed to seek clarity as to why:

• childcare providers in Northern Ireland are required to undertake 20 days work per month in order to qualify for support under the terms of the childcare package;
• financial support for childcare providers is to be limited to 80% of costs when in some other jurisdictions, 100% of costs are to be met. Members felt that Ministers should give serious consideration to revising the level of financial support in order to match provision in some other jurisdictions; and
• financial support for childcare providers is not to be provided for non-childcare or indirect staffing costs.

Further to the above, the Committee also informally agreed to seek an explanation as to why the Department of Education and the Department for Health are apparently employing differing key worker definitions. Members noted with concern that a more liberal interpretation of the key worker definition may serve to undermine social distancing measures in childcare settings.

The Committee noted with particular concern the poor quality of communication with the childcare sector and a number of instances of reported contradictory advice to the sector which was on occasion delivered with very short notice periods.

The Committee consequently informally agreed to recommend that Ministers should establish a childcare forum in order to better manage communications going forward. The Committee felt that Ministers should seek guidance from the sector on the nature of such a forum but should also learn lessons from previous fora including e.g. that which had been that established to support the NEETs and T:BUC strategies.

The Committee informally agreed to suggest to the Committee for Health that it should receive oral evidence on this matter from the childcare organisations mentioned above.

The Committee informally agreed to revise its agenda on 6 May 2020 in order to include a formal oral briefing from representatives from the childcare sector.

The Committee also informally agreed that the Clerk would provide information on childcare support packages in other jurisdictions including sight of a recently published Early Years survey in England.

Finally, the Committee informally agreed to seek clarity on the above from Department of Education and Department for Health officials at the very earliest opportunity and to invite officials from both Departments to provide joint oral evidence on this matter at the Education Committee meeting on 6 May 2020.

4. Any Other Business

The Committee informally agreed to revise its forward work programme such that the briefings from the Association for Quality Education and the Post-Primary Transfer Consortium would be a joint formal oral briefing.

The Committee informally agreed that the Chairperson should write to the Minister indicating particular concerns relating to substitute teachers and urging the Minister to bring forward a hardship scheme as soon as possible.

5. Date, Time and Place of next meeting

The Committee informally agreed to meet again in formal session on Wednesday 6 May 2020 at 9.15am by teleconference and in Room 29, Parliament Buildings.

The informal meeting was adjourned at 4.00pm.

Mr Chris Lyttle MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Education
6 May 2020