Minutes of Proceedings

The Chairperson declared the meeting open to the public at 10.09am.

1. Apologies

Apologies were as indicated above.

2. Draft Minutes of the meeting held 27 June 2013

Agreed: The minutes of the meeting held on 27 June 2013 were agreed.

3. Chairperson's Business

The Chairperson informed the Committee that the Department launched the Housing Action Plan on Tuesday 2 July. He noted that the Committee had not yet reviewed the Department's response of its comments on the draft action plan as the response was received too late for consideration at last week's meeting.

The chairperson advised that Members would have an opportunity to put any questions or comments regarding the Action Plan to officials from the Department following the briefing on Social Housing Reform.

4. Matters Arising

4.1 The Chairperson noted that the Department had responded to the Committee about its queries on the Volunteering Infrastructure and that the Committee needs to decide on their next course of action regarding this.

The Committee felt that they needed to hear more from the Department before deciding how to proceed on this matter. It was agreed to convene an additional Committee meeting on Monday 8 July to allow the Department to provide a further briefing on the volunteering infrastructure.

4.2 The Chairperson noted that in recent months the Committee had held two significant stakeholder events regarding the Housing Strategy since April 2013. He noted that these had represented good engagement and had been attended by senior DSD officials as well as stakeholders, but emphasised the importance of following up on these meetings to assist in steering the work of the Department on housing. The Committee considered draft letters to be issued to the stakeholders that attended each event. The Committee agreed to consider the letters and decide whether to endorse the letters at the end of the meeting.

4.3 The Chairperson noted that, in the case of any non-routine or contentious FoI requests being received throughout the Assembly's Summer Recess period, the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson would have authority to submit views regarding whether to release or withhold information. The Chairperson stated that all Committees had been instructed to take this approach and that, following recess, the Committee would be informed of any such requests received and the views expressed by the Chair / Deputy Chair.

5. Social Housing Reform Programme – Departmental Briefing

The following officials joined the meeting at 10.18am.
• Ms Deirdre Ward, Deputy Director, Housing Division, DSD
• Mr Jim Wilkinson, Director of Housing, DSD

The Chairperson advised the officials that the Committee was scheduled to receive a briefing from Social Development Minister at 11.00am and that it may be necessary to suspend the briefing in order to accommodate this.

Members requested clarification that the Minister offered to appear before the Committee, noting that the BBC had indicated that the Minister had been 'summoned' by the Committee. The Chairperson clarified that, as a result of a text message conversation between himself and the Minister following the Spotlight programme, the Minister had agreed to appear before the Committee.

The officials briefed the Committee on the Social Housing Reform Programme, noting that this briefing was primarily aimed at setting the scene and determining how the Committee and the Department could best work together in the future on the social housing reform programme. The Chairperson agreed that it was important for the Committee identify how best to work collaboratively on housing.

Members expressed concern that the Chair of the NIHE had set out proposals in a manner that suggested the housing strategy was a 'done deal'. The officials confirmed that this is not the case and that any proposals would be put to the Committee. The officials also confirmed that the reform would look into aligning rents between the NIHE, Housing Associations and the private rented sector.

Members expressed concern that if the Department and the Minister assumed too much responsibility that this could lead to the re-politicisation of housing and sought assurance that there would not be a move away from the current approach. The officials confirmed that the Department would be responsible for policy, high level strategy, funding and legislation, but that stakeholders would be involved in shaping the way forward taken by the Department.

The Committee was in agreement that a collaborative approach with the Department was vital and looked forward to regular meetings throughout the process of social housing reform.

The officials left the meeting at 10.52am.

The Chairperson advised that the Minister would shortly join the Committee meeting to discuss allegations made by the Spotlight programme which aired on 3 July.

The Committee had a brief discussion on the allegations made in the Spotlight programme and agreed to hold an inquiry into these allegations.

The Committee meeting was suspended at 11.01am.

The Committee meeting recommenced at 11.09am.

6. Ministerial Briefing - Issues raised by BBC Spotlight Programme, 3 July 2013

The following officials joined the meeting at 11.09am.

• Mr Nelson McCausland MLA, Minister for Social Development
• Ms Susan McCarty, DSD

The Chairperson noted that the previous evening's Spotlight programme had raised significant public commentary and concern. He noted that the Committee had agreed to pursue an inquiry into issues raised.

The Minister spoke to the Committee on issues raised in the programme. He outlined that there were omissions in the Spotlight programme, including the ASM report on the Housing Executive. The Minister emphasised that the Department's priority was to ensure that tenants received good quality services that were value for money and that, as Minister, he sought personally and politically to always act with integrity.

The Minister stated that he would welcome the recall of the Northern Ireland Assembly on Monday 8 July as an opportunity to set the record straight and that he was determined to root out the wrong.

Members expressed the need for all relevant parties to be examined by the Committee in the course of an inquiry, including the BBC.

The Minister emphasised the need for a good relationship between the Minister for Social Development and the Chair of the Housing Executive and the Committee noted that it was aware there are now monthly meetings between the Department and the Housing Executive.

Members of the Committee noted that allegations such as those made in the Spotlight programme can often undermine public confidence and asked what could be done to restore public confidence. The Minister expressed that the key was to get accurate information to the public.

The Chair noted again that the Committee would be pursuing the issue via inquiry and that no judgement had been made at this stage. He stated that the Committee would look at all available evidence and that the Terms of Reference for an inquiry should allow for the questioning of as wide a range of witnesses as possible. The Minister reiterated that he welcomed the inquiry and he had always acted with propriety and probity, with a commitment to achieving value for money.

The officials left the meeting at 1.26pm.

This session was recorded by Hansard.

Mr Alex Maskey MLA left the meeting at 1.26pm.

7. Housing Reform – Issues Facing Tenants – Briefing by Housing Community Network

The following officials joined the meeting at 1.28pm:

• Mr Michael Kelly, Central Housing Community Network
• Ms Patricia McQuillan, Central Housing Community Network
• Mr Brian Holmes, Director, Supporting Communities NI
• Mr Colm McDaid, Area Manager, Supporting Communities NI

The officials briefed the Committee on issues facing tenants, good work carried out by communities on the ground and Housing Community Network's good relations with the NIHE.

The Committee asked the officials to comment on what discussion they had had with the Department regarding their desire to act as a forum for engagement with existing Housing Executive tenants, as well as their intended approach for engaging with tenants. The officials confirmed that, to date, they had only had one meeting with the Department and were waiting for a response. They expressed some concern that decisions were being made without consultation with stakeholders.

The Committee asked what the Department had said about Housing Community Network's proposals regarding community participation and how barriers to community participation could be addressed. The officials noted that there are a number of ways to engage with the community – such as 'village voices' and 'community champions' – but that these had to be elected by the community and that there could sometimes be a gap between Stormont and the residents of estates.

The officials emphasised that volunteers are a very valuable asset and that housing providers could benefit from this. The stated that it would be very important to ensure that communities are not left aside when new structures come into place.

The officials left the meeting at 1.58pm.

8. SL1 The Social Fund Winter Fuel Payment (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013

The following officials joined the meeting at 1.58pm.

• Ms Jane Corderoy, DSD
• Mr Paul McKenna, DSD

The officials briefed the Committee on the implications of the SL1, stating that the overall consequence would be a 'tidy-up' of existing regulations and addressed the Committee's queries.

The officials left the meeting at 2.05pm.

The Deputy Chairperson advised that this Rule would be subject to negative resolution in the Assembly.

The Committee agreed, following this explanatory briefing from Departmental officials, that it is content for this Rule to be made.

9-11. Private Pensions – Proposed Statutory Rules

The Deputy Chairperson referred the Committee to the following Regulations that will make technical amendments to a number of existing Regulations related to automatic enrolment.

• The Automatic Enrolment (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013
• The Pensions Protection Fund (Compensation) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013
• The Occupational Pensions Schemes (Modification of Schemes) Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013

The Deputy Chairperson advised that these Rules would be subject to negative resolution in the Assembly, that the amendments would be made over Recess but that there would be time for the Committee to consider the Statutory Rules when it meets again in September, if Members feel this is necessary.

The Committee agreed that it is content for this Rule to be made.

12. Statutory Rule: SL1 The Charities Act 2008 (Transitional Provision) Order (Northern Ireland) 2013.

The Deputy Chairperson noted that some technicalities had been introduced since the introduction of the Charity Legislation and that this Rule would amend the legislation accordingly.

The Deputy Chairperson advised that the Order would be subject to the negative resolution procedure in the Assembly.

The Committee agreed that it is content for the Rule to be made.

13. Review of Housing Adaptation Services Consultation – Departmental Briefing

The following officials joined the meeting at 2.08pm:

• Mr Colin Dunlop, DHSSPS
• Ms Dolores Ferran, Assistant Director, Housing Policy & Services, NIHE
• Mr Paraig O'Brien, DHSSPS
• Mr Michael Sands, Deputy Director of Housing, DSD

The officials briefed the Committee on the review of the housing adaptation services consultation.

Officials noted the importance of the development of an accessible housing register.

Officials stressed the importance of a mechanism within the revised structures to allow cross sector work to continue between Health and Social Care, HSE and regional housing authorities.

Members noted that they were concerned, when considering Welfare Reform, that people would have to leave their homes due to the introduction of under-occupancy tax and asked whether the Department had established an approach to this. It was noted that in England under-occupancy was costing more money to implement than it was saving. The officials noted that they would monitor the situation in England, ahead of the Welfare Reform Bill being implemented in Northern Ireland.

Members noted that the development of a Housing Options Service was received positively by respondents and asked how this would be taken forward. The officials agreed that there is a desire for support, but that there was a sense that people do not want a new independent body developed for this purpose, so the Department is looking at expanding on existing services.

Members asked if there had been any discussion concerning the slowness of the adaptation service. Officials advised that minor adaptations could usually be carried out quickly, but that major adaptations could potentially take up to a year and a half. They noted that an adaptation 'toolkit' had been introduced to standardise solutions, which should assist in speeding the process up, but acknowledged that there is more work to be done on this.

The officials left the meeting at 2.20pm.

14. Correspondence

14.1 The Deputy Chairperson drew Members' attention to a letter from the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection in the Oireachtas, requesting a meeting with the Social Development Committee to discuss Welfare Reform..

14.2 The Committee agreed to act on other correspondence as detailed on the correspondence memo.

15. FWP

The Committee was content with the Forward Work Programme.

Members expressed interest in some Committee Members visiting Glasgow or other cities to look comparatively at social housing issues.

The Clerk noted that the Committee would be holding a follow up housing event and that educational visits such as this would be factored into a broader consideration of housing issues to help inform the work of the Committee.

16. AOB

16.1 The Deputy Chairperson noted that correspondence received during the Summer Recess would be emailed to Members in two batches throughout the summer for Members' information and to limit the volume of correspondence to be considered at the first Committee meeting after summer.

16.2 The Deputy Chair asked the Committee how they wished to act regarding the Volunteering Infrastructure, noting that a large amount of funding for this was to be redirected. The Committee agreed to seek a briefing from the Department on the Volunteering Infrastructure to allow Members to address any additional concerns and to inform the best approach to moving forward. The Committee agreed to convene an additional meeting on Monday 8 July to accommodate this briefing.

16.3 The Committee agreed to send a response letter to the Department regarding the discretionary element of the social fund.

17. Date, time and place of next meeting

The next meeting will take place at 10.00am on Thursday 12 September 2013 in Room 29, Parliament Buildings. This will be preceded by a Committee 'Away Day' on 5 September.
The Deputy Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 2.35pm.

Mr Alex Maskey
Chairperson, Committee for Social Development
12 September 2013