Minutes of Proceedings

Session: 2011/2012

Date: 29 June 2011

Venue: Room 29, Parliament Buildings

The meeting began at 10.03am in open session.

1. Apologies

Apologies were as indicated above.

2. Chairperson’s Business

The Chairperson briefed the Committee on a recent meeting that he, the Deputy Chairperson and the Clerk held with senior representatives from the Consumer Council and advised the Committee that the Consumer Council and the Assembly Research and Information Service will prepare further briefing papers on fuel poverty for consideration by the Committee after summer recess. The Chairperson also briefed Members on his attendance at the recent NI Federation of Housing Association Achievement Awards.

3. Committee Visit

Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content for the press release in respect of the Committee visit to a Supported Housing Project in South Belfast managed by the Cedar Foundation to be published.

4. Draft Minutes of Meeting 23 June 2011

Agreed: The minutes of the meeting held on Thursday 23 June 2011 were agreed.

5. Report on the Review of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive– Briefing by Pricewaterhouse Coopers (NI).

The following senior representatives from Pricewaterhouse Coopers (NI) joined the meeting at 10.07am:

Mr Richard Parker – Partner, Pricewaterhouse Coopers (UK);
Mr Hugh Crossey – Partner, Pricewaterhouse Coopers (NI); and
Mr Stephen Smyth – NIHE Review Project Lead, Pricewaterhouse Coopers (NI).

The representatives provided a briefing on their Report “Strategic Review of Options for the Future Service Delivery of NIHE”. This was followed by a question and answer session.

Concerns were expressed by some Members in respect of the following:

that the Review had not incorporated a review of housing associations and Housing Division within DSD;
the impact of the proposed policy of convergence of rent levels on the working poor, particularly in light of proposed changes to Housing Benefit;
the independence of both the proposed new Housing Regulator and the proposed new Strategic Housing Authority;
the range of stakeholders consulted to date. As part of the next step of the consultation process, some Members called for the range of consultees to be widened to allow direct engagement with the advice sector, the voluntary housing sector and the amalgamation of residents’ associations;
The transfer of housing related services to local government and the proposed set-up of a network of “Jobs, Housing and Benefits” offices across Northern Ireland, particularly when the Social Security Agency and the social benefits advice sector are already overstretched; and
The proposed set-up for and structure of the new Social Enterprise landlord for the Housing Executive’s existing stock - including mutualisation, tenant rights and ownership and the “community dividend”. Some Members felt that any new structure should reflect the historic success of NIHE’s local community engagement and that the benefits for tenants of setting up a new Social Enterprise model should be clearly set out. Some Members also felt that, given the challenge of setting up a new Social Enterprise model, further discussions should take place with social enterprises in the UK to ensure best practice and lessons learned are incorporated in the NI model.

The Chairperson thanked the representatives for the briefing and wished them well in their engagement with stakeholders over the summer.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that it would receive a briefing from PwC in late September 2011 on the outcome of their engagement with key stakeholders over the summer months.

Agreed: The Committee agreed an amendment to the draft press release to be issued in respect of the Committee’s scrutiny session of the PwC Report.

The representatives left the meeting at 11.05am.

6. Proposed Subordinate Legislation

The following Departmental officials joined the meeting at 11.08am:

Anne McCleary Social Security Policy and Legislation Division, DSD;

Conrad McConnell Fraud Policy Unit, Social Security Agency; and

Joanne Moore Fraud Policy Unit, Social Security Agency.

The officials provided further clarification on the following proposed item of subordinate legislation: The Social Security (Loss of Benefit) (Amendment) Regulations (NI) 2011

6.1 Some Members expressed concern that these proposed Regulations meant that claimants were being prosecuted twice, once by the Court in terms of a fine and then by the Department in the form of benefit sanctions. Some Members also raised the fact that on occasions individuals could be found not guilty of benefit fraud in court, but still face benefit sanctions - as different tests are applied by the Public Prosecution Service and the Department to assess an individual’s case.