Minutes of Proceedings of the fourth meeting of the Public Accounts Committee held in Room 152, Parliament Buildings on Wednesday 7th November 2001
Present:
Mr B Bell (Chairman)
Ms Ramsey
Mr Carrick
Mr Close
Mr Dallat
Ms Morrice
Apologies
Ms Armitage
Mr Beggs
Mr Hilditch
Mr McClelland
Mr O'Connor
In Attendance:
Mr M Rickard (Committee Clerk)
Mr J Campbell (Assistant Committee Clerk)
Ms J Duffin
1. Introduction
The Chairman commenced proceedings by welcoming Mr. Dowdall, the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) and his staff to the meeting. In his introduction he informed members of his intention to hold a review session on 13 December, in order to review the work of the Committee over the last year and to prepare the forward work programme.
He then proceeded to outline the objectives of the meeting as:
- To agree the Minutes of the Meeting of 19.09.01
- To receive a presentation from Mr. John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General, and his staff on the NIAO Report on Road Openings by Utilities (NIA 35/00) and
- To approve the Draft Composite Report on Issues dealt with by Correspondence by the Committee
Following this introduction, the Chairman turned to the order of business.
- Apologies
Apologies were received from, Ms Armitage, Mr Beggs, Mr Hilditch, Mr McClelland and Mr O'Connor
- Minutes from Meeting of 19th September 2001
Agreed
The minutes were an accurate reflection of the meeting.
- Presentation by Mr. John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff on the NIAO Report Road Openings by Utilities
The C&AG gave a brief outline on the forthcoming NIAO Report on Road Openings by Utilities. This was followed by Mr Jones who gave the Committee a presentation detailing the main issues in the Report. Following the presentation the C&AG and Mr Jones answered a number of queries raised by the members. They also outlined the type of questions to be asked in order to draw out conclusions and recommendations for the subsequent PAC Report.
- Approval of Draft Composite Report on Issues Dealt with by Correspondence by the Committee
Since no departmental Memorandum of Reply was required on the Report, the Chairman proposed that a Motion should be placed in the Business Office to discuss it in the Chamber following the Christmas Recess. This would also give the Chairman and all members of the Committee the opportunity to highlight all other Committee reports which have been published and responded to by the relevant departments.
Agreed
The Report should be launched as outlined by the Chairman.
Mr John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) was further examined
Draft Composite Report on Issues dealt with by Correspondence by the Committee proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, section by section.
Sections I to VIII read and agreed to
[Adjourned until Thursday 8th November 2001 at 11:45am]
- Local Government (Best Value) Bill
The Chairman drew to the attention of members correspondence from the Minister of the Environment asking for a formal PAC response to the draft bill. In reply, I agreed to draw it to the attention of the Committee at our next meeting. In response, the Chairman informed the Minister that there would be no Committee reply as I did not consider it appropriate for the Committee to become formally involved in such matters.
Agreed
Members may take the opportunity to comment on the legislation when the Environment Committee produces its report for debate in the Chamber.
- DFP Consultation Document "Audit and Accountability"(Annexes 12-13)
The Chairman drew the members attention to the DFP Consultation Document "Audit and Accountability" and the briefing paper produced and circulated prior to the meeting
Agreed
The members will examine the briefing paper produced on the Consultation Document and will agree a response to DFP at the next briefing session.
- Memorandum of Reply to the PAC Report on HPSS - Executive Directors' and Senior Managers' Pay
The Chairman gave the members a brief outline of correspondence received from Mr Clive Gowdy, Accounting Officer of the Department of Health., Social Services and Public Safety, and guidance issued by DFP to Accounting Officers on responding to PAC Reports.
In Mr Gowdy's letter he apologised for any offence caused and in hindsight he considered that it would have been more appropriate to use a less blunt form of words.
Agreed
The Committee should produce a separate short report on this issue. This would include the Minutes of Evidence given by Dr McCormick on the subject in the meeting of 19 September together with the relevant correspondence and guidance.
- Follow Up Correspondence to the PAC Report on the Control of River Pollution in Northern Ireland
As agreed in the PAC Report on the Control of River Pollution in Northern Ireland, the DOE have forwarded a report to the Committee with an update on progress made to date. A response to the report was drafted prior to the meeting highlighting two key concerns.
Agreed.
The response, drafted prior to the meeting, will be forwarded to DOE.
- Any Other Business
Members noted that the Committee had received a response from Mr Peter Small, the Accounting Officer of the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development which largely addressed the issues raised on the Brucellosis Report, but elements remain outstanding on the Irish Sport Horse. In the response of 24th October DARD have been unable to provide the Committee with detailed information on the individual transactions on the sale and purchase of horses since it did not require the Company to provide it with the level of detail requested.
Agreed
The Committee will produce a second report on the Irish Sport Horse Genetic Testing Unit Ltd and in the process refer to the level of control over the purchase and sale of the horses. In the report, the Committee will give an undertaking to continue to review the wind up of the company.
Evidence Session
The next meeting is at 11:45am on Thursday 8th November in the Senate Chamber where the Committee will take evidence on the NIAO Report on Road Openings by Utilities.
The meeting was then drawn to a close at 12:10pm
B Bell
Committee Chairman
21 November 2001
