Minutes of Proceedings of the twelfth meeting of the Public Accounts Committee held in Room 152 Parliament Buildings on Wednesday 20th February 2002
Members Present:
Mr B Bell (Chairperson)
Mr Beggs
Ms Carrick
Mr Close
Mr Dallat
Mr Hilditch
Mr McClelland
Ms Ramsey
Apologies:
Ms Armitage
Ms Morrice
Mr O'Connor
In Attendance:
Mr M Rickard (Committee Clerk)
Mr J Campbell (Assistant Committee Clerk)
Ms J Duffin
1. Introduction
The Chairman commenced proceedings by welcoming Mr John Dowdall, the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG), and his staff. He then proceeded to outline the objectives of the meeting as:
- To agree the Minutes of the Meetings of 23.01.02
- To receive a presentation from the C&AG and his staff on the NIAO Report Water Service: Leakage Management and Water Efficiency
- To approve the PAC Draft Report and Press Release on Pathology Laboratories in Northern Ireland
- To deal with issues arising from Committee correspondence.
Following this introduction, the Chairman turned to the order of business.
- Apologies
Apologies were received from Ms Armitage, Ms Morrice and Mr O'Connor
- Minutes from Meeting of 23 January 2002
Agreed
The minutes accurately represented the business of the Committee.
- Presentation by Mr. John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) and his staff on the NIAO Report on Water Service: Leakage Management and Water Efficiency
The C&AG gave a brief outline on what he considered to be the main conclusions drawn from the Report. Following the C&AG's introduction, Mr Jones (NIAO Director of VFM) gave a talk which detailed the main issues in the Report. During the presentation he addressed a number of queries raised by the members.
He also outlined the type of questions to be asked in order to draw out conclusions and recommendations for the subsequent PAC Report.
- Clearance of PAC Draft Report and Press Release on Pathology Laboratories in Northern Ireland
Mr John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) was further examined
Draft Report (Pathology Laboratories in Northern Ireland) proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paras 1 to 5 read and agreed to
Paras 6.1 to 7 postponed
Paras 7 to 67 read and agreed to
Paras 6.1 to 7 read and agreed to
Agreed
The PAC Report, Pathology Laboratories in Northern Ireland should be published, together with the approved press release on Tuesday 5th March 2002.
- Issues arising from Correspondence
Northern Ireland Tourist Board
The Chairman drew to members' attention correspondence received from Graham and Heslip Ltd (G&H). G&H were printers who were referred to by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) in their correspondence with the Committee relating to the award of printing contracts by the NI Tourist Board. This correspondence was published as part of the PAC Composite Report.
In the G&H letter, they had sought backing documents supporting the details in the Report.
The Chairman informed the members that since no papers beyond those published in the Report were held by the Committee, he had forwarded the correspondence on to Mr Bruce Robinson, Accounting Officer (DETI). In the letter, he had requested DETI to deal with G&H's request and to forward a copy of the response to the Committee.
Correspondence from the Food Standards Agency
The Chairman briefly drew members attention to the response received from the Foods Standards Agency (FSA) to committee correspondence relating to the risk of Brucellosis passing into the Human Food Chain.
Agreed
In light of the response the Committee were content to learn that there is no evidence that eating infected meat can lead to the disease in humans.
Correspondence from Committee of Employment and Learning
The Chairman referred members to correspondence which he received from the Committee of Employment and Learning. In the letter they raised a number of issues including, their concern that 6 FE Colleges had operating deficits. In light of their concerns, they requested the Committee to:
- Seek reassurance from the C&AG on the overall financial position in the further education sector.
- Provide details of follow up reviews carried out by the Audit Office in relation to DEL issues which had been dealt with by correspondence in the Composite Report, namely, Corporate Governance and Financial Management in FE Colleges and University of Ulster: Senior Officers Expenses.
- Detail progress made by the Audit Office on its current DEL studies.
Agreed
A response would be drafted and approved at the next meeting.
NI Teachers Threshold Arrangements
The Chairman referred members to a letter received from the Ulster Teachers Union (UTU) which expressed concerns relating to "Threshold Payments" for teachers.
Agreed
A reply will be drafted and approved at the next meeting of the Committee.
Any Other Business
Visit to Washington
The Chairman reported to members that the Centre for Democracy, in Washington DC, had invited the Speaker to bring over a Committee to experience the American administration and establish contacts on Capitol Hill. Following consideration, the Speaker felt it appropriate to invite the Public Accounts Committee whom he felt would benefit from the opportunity to discuss the system of financial scrutiny in Congress. The Chairman informed the members that he had formally accepted the invitation and would forward further details as soon as possible.
Committee Timetable
The Chairman confirmed that the next meeting will be held at 10:20am on Thursday 28th February in the Senate Chamber where it will be taking evidence from Nigel Hamilton, DRD on Water Leakage.
Having confirmed the next meeting he turned to address the need for an extra meeting in order to consider responses from both the C&AG and the Treasury Officer of Accounts in relation to the progress made by departments in production of their Resource Accounts,
Agreed
An extra meeting will be arranged for 10:30am on Wednesday 6th March in the Senate Chamber in order to take evidence on Resource Accounting. Consideration will also be given to the NI Audit Office Estimates for 2002-03 at the same session.
The meeting was then drawn to a close at 12:30pm.
B Bell
Committee Chairman
17 April 2002
