Minutes of proceedings of the ninth meetingof the Public Accounts Committee held in the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings on Wednesday 25th October 2000.
Present: Mr B Bell (Chairman)
Ms S Ramsey (Deputy Chairman)
Mr R Beggs
Mr M Carrick
Mr S Close
Mr J Dallat
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Donovan McClelland
Ms J Morrice
Witnesses Mr Peter Small (Permanent Secretary - DARD)
Mr Danny McNeill (Deputy Secretary - DARD)
Mr Gerry McWhinney (Head of Rural Development Division)
Mr Martin McDonald (Chief Executive - RDC)
Mr John Dowdall (Comptroller and Auditor General)
Dr Andrew McCormick (Treasury Officer of Accounts)
In Attendance: Mr M Rickard (Committee Clerk)
Mr J Campbell (Assistant Committee Clerk)
Miss L Tracey
Apologies Ms P Armitage
Mr D O'Connor
1. Closed Session
The meeting commenced at 10:20am with a closed session of ten minutes. During this, the Chairman detailed the protocol and procedures to be adopted for the Evidence Session.
2. Public Session
The witnesses were invited at 10:30am to join the meeting. Evidence was taken on the NIAO Report "The Rural Development Programme (NIA 19 Session 1999-2000)".
The Evidence Session convened at 12:35pm following which the DARD and DFP officials left the Chamber. However, the members and the C&AG and his staff were requested to remain on for a further closed Session.
12:36pm Mr Dallat left the meeting
3. Closed Session
3.1 Fraud in the Social Security Agency (SSA) - The Committee discussed the issue of a £250,000 fraud, perpetrated in SSA by a member of its staff.
12:40pm - Donovan McClelland left the meeting
3.2 Order of Questioning - The Chairman explained that the order of questioning was based upon party strength, as per the Assembly, and there would be no deviation from this methodology.
3.3 Draft Report on Income Support Benefit - Following the issue of the draft report to all members after the meeting of 19th October 2000, the Committee decided to discuss its content
Mr John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General, was further examined.
The Committee deliberated.
Draft Report (The Administration of Income Support Benefit), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph
Para 1 to 2 read and agreed to.
Para 3 postponed
Para 4 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 5 to 11 read and agreed to
Para 12 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 13 read and agreed to
Para 14 to 15 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 16 read and agreed to
Para 17 read and agreed subject to merging with paragraph 12.
Para 18 read and agreed subject to reference to DOE response received 12.09.00.
Para 19 read and agreed to
Para 20 subject to amendment
Para 21 read and agreed to
Para 22 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 23 read and agreed to
Para 24 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 25 read and agreed to
Para 3 read and agreed subject to changes to be made to reflect amendments agreed in paras 4-25.
Jane Morrice left the meeting at 12:55pm
3.4 Meeting with Mark Durkan, Minister of Finance and Personnel - It was reported to members that an invite has been received from Mr Durkan to discuss the Government Resources and Accounts Bill with the Committee. A meeting has been set for 11:00am in Room 145 on Tuesday 7th November. Both DFP and NIAO have agreed to give presentations to the Committee.
3.5 Closure - It was drawn to the attention of members that the next report to be heard by the Committee will be on River Pollution in Northern Ireland. The briefing for this hearing will be held at 10:30am in Room 152 on 15th November. The meeting closed at 1:00pm
William B Bell
Committee Chairman
15 November 2000
