MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE TWENTY-THIRD MEETING OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE HELD IN ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS ON WEDNESDAY 16TH MAY 2001
Present:
Mr B Bell (Chairman)
Ms S Ramsey
Mr R Beggs
Mr M Carrick
Mr J Dallat
Mr D Hilditch
Ms J Morrice
Apologies
Ms P Armitage
Mr S Close
Mr D McClelland
Mr D O'Connor
In Attendance:
Mr M Rickard (Committee Clerk)
Mr J Campbell (Assistant Committee Clerk)
Mr A McWatters
Ms C Angelone
1. Introduction
The Chairman commenced proceedings by welcoming Mr. Dowdall, the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) and his staff to the meeting. He then proceeded to outline the objectives of the meeting as:
(i) To agree the draft minutes of the meetings of 14.03.01;
(ii)To be briefed on the NIAO Reports on School Inspection in Northern Ireland (HC 636) & Pay Flexibilities for School Principals and Vice-Principals (NIA 16/00)
(iii)To agree the draft PAC Report on Executive Directors' and Senior Managers' Pay & Executive Directors' Contracts and Termination Settlements
(iv)To agree the action to be taken following receipt of various response to Committee correspondence
Following this introduction, the Chairman turned to the order of business.
2. Apologies
Apologies were received from Ms P Armitage, Mr S Close, Mr D McClelland and Mr D O'Connor
3. Minutes from Meeting of 14 March 2001
Agreed
The minutes were an accurate record of the previous meeting.
4. Presentation by Mr. John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff on the NIAO Reports on School Inspection in Northern Ireland (HC 636) & Pay Flexibilities for School Principals and Vice-Principals (NIA 16/00)
The C&AG gave a brief outline on what he considered to be the main conclusions drawn from the Reports. Following the C&AG's introduction, Mr McKay and Mr Edgar gave presentations which detailed the main issues in the Reports. Following the presentation they addressed a number of queries raised by the members.
They also outlined the type of questions to be asked in order to draw out conclusions and recommendations for the subsequent PAC Report.
Mr Carrick declared an interest in the Report on Pay Flexibilities for School Principals and Vice-Principals (NIA 16/00)
5. Draft Report on Executive Directors' and Senior Managers' Pay & Executive Directors' Contracts and Termination Settlements
Following the issue of the draft report to all members, the Committee discussed its content
Mr John Dowdall, Comptroller and Auditor General, was further examined.
The Committee deliberated.
Draft Report (Health and Personal Social Services - Executive Directors' and Senior Managers' Pay, Contracts and Termination Settlements) proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Introduction read and agreed to
Para 1 to 4 read and agreed to.
Para 5.1 to 6 postponed
Para 7 to 11 read and agreed to
Para 12 to 13 read and agreed subject to amendments
Para 14 to 17 read and agreed to
Para 18 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 19 to 20 read and agreed to
Para 21 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 22 to 34 read and agreed to
Para 35 read and agreed subject to amendment
Para 36 to 56 read and agreed to
Paras 5.1 to 6 read and agreed subject to changes to be made to reflect amendments agreed in paras 7 to 56
Following approval of the draft report, the draft press release was agreed.
6. Action to be taken by the Committee following receipt of various correspondence
It was reported that since the previous meeting, a number of replies had been received to Committee enquiries. Each of the replies were reviewed and the corresponding Committee response was discussed
(a) Response to Committee letter of 7 March concerning the NIAO Report "Improving Winter Driving Conditions (HC 10 Session 1999-2000)"
Agreed
A further letter should be issued to Mr Spence stating that the Committee
- considers that the new guidance issued by Road Service should be revised to clarify the role of the maps; and
- may wish to take the opportunity to question him directly on this issue at a future hearing.
(b) Response to Committee letter of 22 March concerning Variances and Losses in the IDB 1999-2000 Appropriation Account (36/00)
Agreed
A letter should be issued to IDB to ensure that in the future, capital projects should have adequate professional indemnity insurance to cover the full value of the scheme.
(c) Response to Committee letter of 22 March concerning Variances and Losses in the DETI 1999-2000 Appropriation Account (36/00)
Agreed
A letter should be issued to DETI informing them that the Committee will want to be updated on the outcome of the dispute between NIE and DETI on clawback provision which had arisen following NIE's disposal of its Danesfort HQ and its shareholding in NIE Retail Ltd in 1997-98.
(d) Response to Committee letter of 22 March concerning issues raised by the C&AG in the Appropriation Accounts Volume 1999-2000 (36/00) concerning T&EA
Agreed
The response fully addressed PAC concerns. No further action required
(e) Response to Committee letter of 28 March concerning issues raised by the C&AG in the Appropriation Accounts Volume 1999-2000 (36/00) concerning NITB
Agreed
A letter should be issued to the Department requesting a report at the end of this financial year on the printing contracts awarded under the new arrangements. The position in relation to public appointments should also be clarified.
7. Any Other Business
Corporate Governance and Financial Management in Colleges of Further Education & University of Ulster: Senior Officers' Expenses
The Clerk reported that correspondence had been received from Dr Esmond Birnie, Chairman of the Committee for Further and Higher Education, Training and Employment, enquiring if PAC will be dealing with any business relating to his Committee.
Agreed
The Committee will write to the Accounting Officer of the Department of Further and Higher Education, Training and Employment inviting him to comment on the action taken in response to the Comptroller and Auditor General's reports on:
- Corporate Governance and Financial Management in Colleges of Further Education
- University of Ulster: Senior Officers' Expenses.
On receipt of his reply, the Committee will consider the information provided and decide whether it will be necessary to hold an evidence session on these subjects.
Agreed
A draft response to Dr Birnie presented to the Committee prior to the meeting should be issued.
Other NIAO Reports
Following discussion with the C&AG
Agreed
The Committee will seek written responses to the following four reports:
Loughry Food Business Incubation Centre
Road Service: Bridge Assessment and Strengthening Programme
Energy Efficiency in the Education Sector and
Performance Measurement and Reporting in the Rate Collection Agency
Audit Office Conference
It was drawn to the attention of all members that the Audit Office will be holding their conference in the Long Gallery on Thursday 14th June and all members are invited to the buffet lunch. C&AG stated that further details will follow
Forward Work Programme
Agreed
The C&AG will present at the next briefing session (Tuesday 19 June 2001) the list of NIAO Reports not dealt with by PAC in order to produce the Forward Work Programme from September to November 2001.
Report to the Assembly
The Chairman informed the members that in Westminster PAC has the opportunity to produce an "End of Year" Report to the House.
Agreed
The Clerk will make the necessary arrangements in order to produce a similar report to the Assembly.
Evidence Session
Members were reminded that the next Evidence Session will be on Thursday 24th May 2001 in the Senate Chamber and all members were requested to arrive by 10:20am.
The meeting was then drawn to a close at 12:45pm
B Bell
Committee Chairman
19 June 2001
