Minutes of proceedings of the second meeting of the Public Accounts Committee held in the Northern Ireland Audit Office, 106 University Street, Belfast on Thursday 8th June 2000

Present: Mr B Bell (Chairman)
Ms S Ramsey (Deputy Chairman)
Mr R Beggs
Mr M Carrick
Mr S Close
Mr J Dallat
Mr D McClelland
Ms J Morrice
Mr D O'Connor

Apologies: Mr D Hilditch
Ms P Armitage

In Attendance: Mr M Rickard (Committee Clerk)
Mr J Campbell (Assistant Committee Clerk)
Miss L Tracey

1. CHAIRMAN'S INTRODUCTION

The Chairman opened the meeting by welcoming the members to the second meeting of the Committee. He reiterated the importance of the Committee and the non-partisan nature of its operation. He also placed on record his appreciation to the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG), John Dowdall, for making his Office available for the meeting.

The main purpose of the meeting was to discuss the selection and timetabling of the NIAO Reports to be taken by the Committee following a briefing by the C&AG and his staff. The chairman informed the members that a provisional time and date of 10:30am on Wednesday 5^th July 2000 had been set for the first hearing session in the Senate Chamber. A briefing from the C&AG and his staff will precede the hearing on Wednesday 28th June 2000 in Room 152.

A brief discussion followed on the various reports available for selection. However, it was decided to postpone the scheduling of the Reports until the C&AG and his staff had given their presentation.

2. DECLARATION OF INTERESTS

Due to the significant gap from the previous meeting, the Chairman enquired if any of the members' interests had changed. No changes were declared.

3. MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING

The Chairman recognised that there was difficulty in establishing a time for meetings which was suitable for all members. From discussions held with members prior to the meeting, the times which emerged as most suitable for members were Wednesday and Thursday mornings. In each case, only one member, Ms Morrice and Mr Hilditch were unavailable.

Changes made to the layout of the Senate Chamber should now make it suitable for public hearings.

Agreed

1. The Committee hearings and briefings would be alternated between both Wednesday and Thursday mornings in order to ensure that the timing of meetings suited as many members as possible.
2. Public Hearings are to be held in the Senate Chamber.

4. PRESENTATION BY MR. JOHN DOWDALL (COMPTROLLER AND AUDITOR GENERAL), ON CURRENT AUDIT OFFICE REPORTS

The Chairman welcomed both Mr Dowdall and his staff to the meeting. Mr Dowdall then gave a brief outline of the role of the NI Audit Office, his responsibilities as Comptroller and Auditor General and how this interfaced with the Committee's roles and responsibilities. He then introduced Mr Ciaran Moore (Financial Audit Director) and Mr Raymond Jones (VFM Audit Director). Each Director gave presentations on their areas of responsibility, detailing reports which are currently available and those which will be available to the Committee in the near future.

5. SCHEDULING THE FUTURE WORK PROGRAMME OF THE COMMITTEE

A detailed Question and Answer Session took place to clarify the Committee's Future Work Programme.

Mr O'Connor joined the meeting at 11:05am.

Mr McClelland left the meeting at 11:06am and returned at 11:11am.

Agreed

(i) The Committee will adopt the programme proposed by Mr Dowdall. The timetable is:

(ii)The NIAO will provide a briefing on Wednesday 28^th June 2000 in Room 152.

(iii)Following the first three sessions the Committee will meet with the C&AG to take stock of progress made

6. VIDEO PRESENTATION OF PAC (WESTMINSTER) IN OPERATION

In order to give the members a feel for how a Public Accounts Committee operates, a number of extracts of videos from PAC (Westminster) were shown.

7. ANY OTHER BUSINESS

• Estimates of the Audit Office

Due to the accelerated passage of the Appropriation Bill, the Committee did not have time to scrutinise the estimates of the NI Audit Office. It was noted, however, that under direct rule arrangements, the Public Accounts Committee at Westminster had carried out this function.

Agreed

In view of the exceptional circumstances applying this year and since the estimates had been scrutinised by PAC at Westminster, the Committee agreed to pass the Estimates to the Audit Committee without comment.

• Visits to Other PAC Committees

The Committee agreed that visits to England, Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland should be arranged as appropriate later this year. The Committee agreed that the Chairman should meet with the Chairman of PAC at Westminster later this month.

The Chairman again thanked all those present for their contributions and Mr Dowdall for his excellent and very informative presentation.

William B Bell
Committee Chairman
28^th June 2000