COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY, 25 APRIL 2002 ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Dr Ian Adamson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA

In Attendance:Dr Andrew Peoples
Mr Colin Jones
Mr David Douglas
Mr Michael Meehan

Apologies: Mr Joe Byrne MLA
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr William Hay MLA
Mr John Kelly MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA

The meeting opened at 2.20pm in open session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of 18 April 2002

Agreed. Proposed: Dr Adamson.Seconded: Mr Dallat.

3. Matters Arising

Members considered an extract from the Department for Employment and Learning's (DEL) e-business strategy, detailing the key services to be electronically delivered directly to the public to meet the Executive's targets. Members agreed to write to the Minister seeking further information on the potential impact of e-business on service delivery in JobCentres.

Action: Clerk

4. Committee Responses

Members considered a draft response on the Interim Report on the Government Office Accommodation Review. Following debate, it was agreed for issue as amended. (Annex 1).

Action: Clerk

5. Correspondence

Members considered the Minister for Employment and Learning's response to a query from the Chairman of the Committee for Social Development in relation to their Inquiry into 'Homelessness,' and agreed that this should be forwarded to the Social Development Committee.

Action: Clerk

6. Briefing from Department for Employment and Learning Officials on their Further Education Strategy

Dr R Davison, Deputy Secretary and Mrs C Bell, Assistant Secretary, briefed members on DEL's strategy for the further education sector. Following the briefing the following issues were debated with officials:

• the terms of reference for the FE strategy;
• how the community sector would be effectively engaged;
• the need to enhance the economic role of further education colleges and to address cross-cutting issues such as the benefits trap and the black economy;
• whether the colleges current remit was too wide and the most effective model to ensure that action taken throughout the colleges was in line with DEL's strategic aims;
• how the strategy would address decisions around the size and structure of the sector, including multi-site campuses, and whether further centres of excellence were planned in the future;
• the use of outreach projects to make further education more accessible to rural communities;
• how the strategy would address the issue of research and development in colleges to benefit small and medium sized businesses;
• the need for the strategy to address the image problems of the sector;
• the possibility of duplication and/or competition between the traditional further education base, the University for Industry and the learndirect network; and
• the future funding needs of the sector.

7. Correspondence (continued)

Members considered a response from the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Ulster to the Committee's request for further information on the University's equality screening of policies and their management of fixed-term contracts. It was noted that the University's Equality Scheme was currently with the Equality Commission for ratification and members agreed to write to the Vice-Chancellor to request copies of the finalised scheme.

Action: Clerk

Members noted a response from the Minister, detailing the general budgetary process for the further education sector.

Members noted the following correspondence:

• the Law Centre (Northern Ireland)'s response to the consultation on the draft Fixed-Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002;
• from the Association of University Teachers on their recent briefing to the Committee on fixed-term contracts;
• Committee Office Notes updating the equality schemes and screening policy consultations available in the Office for members' information; and
• an updated research paper on the employability scoping study relating to the Taskforce on Employability and Long Term Unemployment.

8. Legislation

Members considered Statutory Rule 93/2002, which had been laid in the Business Office subject to negative resolution, together with the Report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was agreed that:

"the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered SR 93/2002: 'Working Time (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002', and has no objections to the Rule."

The Clerk was directed to inform the Business Office and to notify the Department.

Action: Clerk

Members considered Statutory Rule 111/2002, which had been laid in the Business Office subject to negative resolution, together with a draft Report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was agreed that:

"the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered SR 111/2002: 'The Education (Student Support) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002', and has no objections to the Rule."

The Clerk was directed to inform the Business Office and to notify the Department.

Action: Clerk

Members considered Statutory Rule 112/2002, which had been laid in the Business Office subject to negative resolution, together with a draft Report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was agreed that:

"the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered SR 112/2002: 'The Students Awards (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002', and has no objections to the Rule."

The Clerk was directed to inform the Business Office and to notify the Department.

Action: Clerk

Members considered Statutory Rule 120/2002, which had been laid in the Business Office subject to negative resolution, together with a draft Report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was agreed that:

"the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered SR 120/2002: 'The Labour Relations Agency Arbitration Scheme Order (Northern Ireland) 2002', and has no objections to the Rule."

The Clerk was directed to inform the Business Office and to notify the Department.

Action: Clerk

9. Forward Work Programme

Members considered the Committee's Forward Work Programme until the summer recess. Members noted that, as agreed last week, the visit to Upper Bann Institute had been scheduled for Thursday 16 May 2002. The Chairman also drew members' attention to the fact that the Minister was to brief the Committee on 9 May 2002, on the Department's response to the Committee's Report on 'Education and Training for Industry,' and emphasised the importance of attendance. Members agreed that their main priorities until the summer recess were as follows:

• respond to the consultation on the 'Essential Skills for Living' Strategy, by 21 June 2002. Members agreed to forward the consultation document to relevant Assembly Committees;

Action: Clerk

• Committee scrutiny of the Employment Bill, currently expected in mid-May 2002;
• consideration of the Taskforce for Employability and Long-Term Unemployment's draft Action Plan;
• examination of progress on the Springvale Development; and
• a response to the consultation on the Burns' Report on those proposals within the remit of DEL.

It was agreed that the Chairman and Deputy Chairman should seek a meeting with the Minister to determine when several major items of work currently being undertaken by DEL, would be forwarded to the Committee.

Action: Clerk

• Any Other Business

The Chairman updated members on the key issues discussed at the recent meeting of the Chairpersons' Liaison Group. He also reminded members that the Committee was hosting a seminar on 'Widening Access to Higher Education in Northern Ireland' at 1.15pm in the Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings on Thursday 2 May 2002.

• Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting

On Thursday 9 May 2002 at 2.00pm in Room 152, Parliament Buildings

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 3.37pm.

Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning
9 May 2002

Committee for Employment and Learning

Response to the Strategic Review of Government Office Accommodation - Interim Report, January 2002

The Committee for Employment and Learning welcomes the opportunity to respond to the Strategic Review of Government Office Accommodation - Interim Report commissioned by the Department of Finance and Personnel.

We welcome this strategic review and regard it as a very important cross-cutting policy review which was agreed as part of the Programme for Government. The Committee agreed to set out their over-arching views rather than complete the questionnaire and these are given below under two headings, general principles and areas relating to the Department for Employment and Learning per se.

1. General Principles

(a) The consensus of the Committee for Employment and Learning was that it supports, subject to the considerations mentioned below, a dispersal policy of civil servants throughout Northern Ireland for the medium to long-term benefits as encapsulated in the following extract from the Regional Development Strategy 2001.

"Even on a modest scale this could bring local economic benefits, support town centre revitalisation, underpin and encourage private sector investment. An appropriate level of decentralised public and private sector investment would have environmental and economic benefits, reducing commuting to the Belfast metropolitan area and relieving congestion as well as contributing to the equitable sharing of resources."

(b) Members are fully aware of the up-front costs, but wish to see due recognition given to the longer term benefits in areas such as transport, environment, health, equality, and targeting social need. These also need to be more fully assessed, quantified and taken into account alongside the cost per job.

One question which arises, is whether if positions were moved out of Greater Belfast would the persons affected move their residence? If they did not then there would still be commuter traffic flows, simply in a different direction. At the same time, given current budgetary pressures the above up-front costs may be considerable and cannot be ignored. We note the PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) study of the movement of 280 jobs to Londonderry. The total cost of this was £12-17m or about £50,000 per job relocated (all this in mid 1990's prices). Compared to IDB or LEDU figures a costly way of creating jobs in certain areas.

(c) Furthermore, the Committee notes the following two comments within the interim report as areas where improvements will offer cost savings in the future and assist in implementing future policy.

"In all departments there is little evidence of use of newer technology and working practices such as hot- desking, tele-working and video conferencing."

". exacerbated by poor utilisation and management of existing accommodation and resources."

2. Department for Employment and Learning

(a) The Committee fully recognises that the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) has a reasonable spread of staff across Northern Ireland but supports and encourages a further detailed examination of staff dispersal throughout the province. In both the Departmental brief of 4 December 2001 and the Minister's oral response to a supplementary question in the Assembly, the Minister has committed to build on the current position.

(b) The Committee also supports the Department's aspiration of having one building for the Departmental core to reduce lost time, wasted resources and improve the efficiency of its operations. We would wish this to be further examined within the outworkings of this review.

Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairman
25 April 2002