COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY, 21 MARCH 2002 ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Roy Beggs MLA
Mr Joe Byrne MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA
Professor Monica McWilliams MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew Peoples
Ms Hilary Bogle
Mr Colin Jones
Mr Paul Stitt
Mr John McVey (Northern Ireland Assembly Research)
Ms Eileen Regan (Northern Ireland Assembly Research)

Apologies:
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr William Hay MLA
Mr John Kelly MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA

 

The meeting opened at 1.23pm in open session.

 

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of 7 March 2002

Agreed. Proposed: Professor McWilliams. Seconded: Mr Beggs.

  1. Matters Arising

None.

1.26pm Mr Dallat joined the meeting.

4. Committee Responses

Members considered and agreed, as amended, the Committee's response to the proposed Regional Transportation Strategy (Annex 1), for issue to the Committee for Regional Development.

Action: Clerk

5. Correspondence

Members noted further information from the University of Ulster on tuition fees.

Members considered responses from Queen's University Belfast and the University of Ulster on disciplinary regulations for students, together with an Assembly Research paper on the 'Relationships between Students and the Community.'

1.35pm Mr Hutchinson left the meeting.

It was agreed to request further research in this area and to revisit the issue when this research has been completed.

Action: Clerk

Members considered a response from Castlereagh College of Further and Higher Education on the recent closure of outcentres within their catchment area and agreed that this should be forwarded to the individual who had initially raised this issue with the Committee.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the Minister's response on the recovery plans currently in place in some Further Education Colleges.

Members noted correspondence from Ms M Fitzpatrick, Manager, Belfast learndirect and considered a draft letter from the Chairman to the Minister on the future financial viability of learndirect centres. It was agreed that this should be issued and that the Committee should also request information on where responsibility lay for ensuring quality control in courses. Mr Beggs stated that Larne Borough Council was the only council area without a learndirect centre and that the Minister should be asked to provide the criteria to be met when deciding whether a learndirect centre should be established.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the response from the Northern Ireland Office of the National Union of Students (UK) and the Union of Students in Ireland on the proposed merger between the Northern Ireland Hotel and Catering College (NIHCC) and the University of Ulster. It was noted that they had no major concerns regarding the proposal. The Committee also considered further information on the proposal requested from the Minister. It was agreed that the Minister's response did not clarify whether an economic impact assessment had been carried out and that the Chairman should write again to the Minister requesting this information. Further information should also be requested from the Department on the number of applications received for courses in this field and what additional courses were proposed for the further education sector for students currently studying further education courses at the NIHCC.

Action: Clerk

The Committee agreed not to respond to the current consultation on the proposed merger.

The Committee considered a reply from the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), detailing recent work carried out by the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) within the remit of the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL). Members agreed that the Chairman should write to the Chairman of the PAC expressing the Committee for Employment and Learning's support for making the Comptroller and Auditor General responsible for auditing the annual accounts of Further Education Colleges.

Action: Clerk

Members also considered the Department's responses to the PAC on recent NIAO Reports on 'Corporate Governance and Financial Management in Further Education Colleges' and 'Senior Officer Expenses in the University of Ulster.' It was agreed that these responses contained several commitments, particularly in relation to the governing bodies of Further Education Colleges, which the Committee should follow up in order to obtain up-to-date information on progress made.

Action: Clerk

The Committee also agreed to write to the Minister to determine whether consideration had been given to remunerating governors of Further Education Colleges, given their level of responsibilities.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the Minister's response on action taken by DEL regarding the recent closure of the Henry Garrett Building at Stranmillis College for health and safety reasons. It was noted that the Department was currently considering how best to address the issue in the longer term.

Members considered the Minister's response to the Committee's request for information on funding for Employer-led Modern Apprenticeships (ELMAs). Members noted that the response did not provide detail, as requested, on the contractual background to the arrangement. It was agreed that this should be copied to Mr P Gallagher, Director of the North-West Institute of Further and Higher Education, who first brought this matter to the Committee's attention, for his comments.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed that DEL's memorandum on Tourism should be forwarded to the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment, as part of their current Inquiry.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the Minister's update on the absence rate and staff vacancies for JobCentre staff and agreed that further clarification was needed.

Action: Clerk

Members considered information provided by the Minister on whether the Northern Ireland block would receive a share of the additional £30 million recently announced for university research in England. Members noted that, as this money emanated from a redistribution of funding within the Department for Education and Skills, there would be no read across to the Northern Ireland block under the Barnett formula. Members expressed concern that this would further increase the disparity between the funding available for research and development in higher education institutions in Great Britain, compared to those in Northern Ireland.

Members agreed to issue a press release highlighting the Committee's continuing concerns in this area and to issue a further letter to the Minister.

Action: Clerk

Members noted information from DEL highlighting the key issues to be brought to the Committee up to the summer recess. Members noted the following:

  • DEL were bringing forward an Employment Bill before the summer recess;

  • possible consultation on the interface between Part-Time and Fixed-Term Work Regulations;

  • DEL officials would brief the Committee on 11 April 2002 on their Adult Literacy strategy prior to it being launched the following week; and

  • DEL officials had offered a briefing later in April 2002 on their Further Education strategy.

Members noted that, in addition to the briefing on the Adult Literacy strategy, officials would brief the Committee on the Department's Position Report for the forthcoming budget and on their draft bids for support from the Executive Programme Infrastructure Fund on the 11 April 2002. The Minister would be in attendance.

Members noted that the evidence session with the Minister on DEL's response to the Committee's Report on 'Education and Training for Industry' had been cancelled last week due to the lack of a quorum. The Department had suggested that this session could take place on Tuesday 30 April. However, due to doubts over the availability of several members, the Clerk was directed to seek an alternative date.

Action: Clerk

Members noted that a Forward Work Programme for the Committee would be issued for consideration at the meeting of 11 April 2002.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the following correspondence:

  • from the Lord Alderdice on the Review of Public Administration;

  • papers from the seminar on 'Government Finance and the Budget Process';

  • further information from the Lifestart Foundation;

  • from DEL re the delay in Carrickfergus JobCentre's application for Charter Mark;

  • further information from DEL regarding the forthcoming Employment Bill;

  • details of the draft Equality Schemes received to date and held in the Committee Office;

  • details of the draft Screening Policy consultations received to date and held in the Committee Office; and

  • information from DEL on Work Permit applications.

 

  1. Briefing from Northern Ireland Assembly Research on Adult Literacy

Members were briefed on the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) 1996 Survey of Adult Literacy in Northern Ireland (IALS), the results for Northern Ireland from the 2000 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) Study and the Belfast Education and Library Board Report 'Literacy in a Learning City'. The following areas were highlighted:

  • the differential in the comparative international position of Northern Ireland within the NISRA and PISA reports;

  • the results of a desktop exercise carried out in Northern Ireland by NISRA have not been published to date;

  • the linkage between education and literacy and unemployment and literacy;

  • the differentiation between literacy levels and attainment of qualifications;

  • priority areas identified by the Conference of Ministers of Education as a result of the PISA Study; and

  • the recommendations of the Belfast Education and Library Board Report on improving literacy performance in Northern Ireland.

Following debate it was agreed that the Chairman should write to the Committee for Finance and Personnel seeking clarification on the status, process and outcomes of the desktop exercise adjusting the IALS figures for Northern Ireland.

Action: Clerk

  1. Briefing from Northern Ireland Assembly Research on Fixed-Term Contracts

Dr Birnie and Professor McWilliams declared an interest, as members of the Association of University Teachers.

Following a short presentation by Northern Ireland Assembly Research on recent legislative developments concerning fixed-term contracts, the following areas were debated:

  • statistical comparisons between the number of fixed-term contracts issued by the University of Ulster, and other relevant higher education statistics in the United Kingdom;

  • the implications of the impending European Fixed-term Work Directive, which is due to be implemented on 10 July 2002;

  • the status of the Fixed-term Work Directive over the last two years in Northern Ireland, particularly in relation to individuals;

  • the prevailing employment law in Northern Ireland in relation to the use of unfair dismissal waiver clauses in fixed-term contracts; and

  • the position with regard to unfair dismissal clauses that predated the above legislative change.

2.56 Mr Dallat and Mr Beggs left the meeting. As the meeting was inquorate the Chairman suspended the meeting.

2.58 Mr Dallat and Mr Beggs returned to the meeting. The Chairman resumed the meeting.

 

  1. Briefing from the Association of University Teachers on Fixed-Term Contracts

Members were briefed by Mr B Everett, Assistant General Secretary, Association of University Teachers and Dr T McKnight, Chair, University of Ulster, Association of University Teachers. Following a short presentation the following areas were debated:

  • Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act and the issue as to the carrying out of impact assessments and policy screening;

  • comparison of the number of University staff on fixed-term contracts across Great Britain;

  • the concern raised by staff at the University of Ulster on fixed-term contracts, with regard to the advertising, by the University, of their current posts as permanent posts in light of the current formal dispute;

  • funding for the staff on fixed-term contracts at the University of Ulster;

 

  • the Association of University Teacher's role in the current dispute and the line taken by staff on permanent contracts in the University of Ulster;

  • the disparity in approach being adopted by both the University of Ulster and the Queen's University Belfast, to the issuing of fixed-term contracts; and

 

Mr Beggs declared an interest as a member of the Court at the University of Ulster.

 

  • The loss of skills when long-standing fixed-term contracts are terminated and the difficulty of the individuals involved finding other suitable employment due to the limited opportunities in Northern Ireland.

 

3.35 Professor McWilliams left the meeting. As the meeting was inquorate the Chairman suspended the meeting.

3.37 Professor McWilliams returned to the meeting. The Chairman resumed the meeting.

Following debate it was agreed that the Chairman should write to the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Ulster highlighting the Committee's concerns and seeking further clarification. It was also agreed that this letter should be copied to the Minister and that the Chairman should write to the person who drew the Committee's attention to the matter, outlining the Committee's action.

3.38 Mr Dallat left the meeting. The meeting became inquorate.

 

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 3.38pm.

 

Dr Esmond Birnie, MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning
11 April 2002