COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY 20 JUNE 2002,ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present: Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Dr Ian Adamson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr David Hilditch MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA

In Attendance: Dr Andrew Peoples
Mr Colin Jones
Mr Michael Meehan

Apologies: Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr Arthur Doherty MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA

The meeting opened at 2.21pm in open session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of 13 June 2002

Agreed. Proposed: Mr Carrick. Seconded: Mr Hutchinson.

3. Matters Arising

Mr Dallat queried why the press release, issued following last week's meeting, on the proposed merger of the Northern Ireland Hotel and Catering College with the University of Ulster, had not detailed those members who had voted for and against the proposal. The Chairman informed him that this was detailed in the minutes of proceedings of the meeting, which would be placed in the public domain.

2.22pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting. The meeting was inquorate; the Chairman suspended the meeting.

2.35pm. Mr Hutchinson joined the meeting. The meeting resumed.

4. Committee Responses

Members noted correspondence received on the Phono-Graphix Reading Method and requested research in this area.

Action: Clerk

Members considered their draft response on the Department for Employment and Learning's (DEL) consultation on the 'Essential Skills for Living' document. Members also considered a response received from the Committee for Education and agreed that the submission should be amended to reference its views. It was also agreed that further information should be requested from DEL on the breakdown of the target audience outlined in the consultation document eg (urban-rural). The Chairman was authorised to approve these amendments and issue the finalised submission.

Action: Clerk

Members considered and agreed their response to the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development on the report of the Review Panel on 'Education and R&D in Agriculture and Food Science.'

Action: Clerk

Members considered the Executive's Position Report on 'Developing the Programme for Government and the Budget for 2002/03.' Members debated the financial issues in relation to DEL, contained in the Report and directed the Clerk to draft a response to the Committee for Finance and Personnel for consideration and agreement at the next meeting.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed that a response to the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) on the key strategic issues, in relation to DEL, to be included in the Programme for Government for 2003/04 should be drafted and agreed before the summer recess. This would enable the Committee's views to be accounted for in the initial draft of the Programme for Government. A further response could be issued before the end of August 2002, if required.

Members debated and agreed the issues to be included in their response and directed the Clerk to produce a draft for consideration and agreement at the meeting of 4 July 2002.

Action: Clerk

2.50pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting. The meeting was inquorate; the Chairman suspended the meeting.
2.54pm. Mr Hutchinson joined the meeting. The meeting resumed.
2.56pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting. The meeting was inquorate; the Chairman suspended the meeting.
3.17pm. Mr Hutchinson joined the meeting. The meeting resumed.

5. Briefing from the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (NIC-ICTU) on the Employment Bill

Members noted that the Employment Bill had been passed to the Committees for Finance and Personnel, Social Development and Enterprise, Trade and Investment for comment.

The Committee was briefed by Mr B Gourley, Ms A Hope and Mr L McBrinn on the Employment Bill. The following issues were highlighted during the introductory presentation:

  • the need for the legislation to apply to all workers, as the current definition of 'employees' meant that the self-employed, temporary, casual and agency workers were excluded;'
  • the need for effective enforcement of rights regarding statutory maternity pay and maternity leave;
  • the small percentage of working women who could afford to benefit from the proposal to extend maternity leave;
  • the fact that the qualifying service condition for statutory maternity pay discriminates against women who change jobs in the early stages of pregnancy and could therefore affect career enhancement;
  • the need for further measures to encourage fathers to spend more time with their children;
  • why the 'sickness trigger' for maternity leave and the service qualification for paternity leave should be abolished;
  • the need for birth support rights for same sex parents to be included in the Bill;
  • why the proposals did not include children adopted from outside Northern Ireland and all adoptive carers;
  • why parents with children over 6 years old could not request flexible working; and
  • the need for the legislation to cover those caring for elderly parents and relatives.

Following the presentation, the following issues were debated with members:

  • ยท the potential effects of future legislation on current legislation containing stipulations on age limits;
  • the need for a partnership between employers and employees regarding the new arrangements, with government having responsibility for measuring any adverse impact on employers;

  • why there were no additional entitlements for the adoption of a disabled child;

  • the fact that tribunals could only consider whether proper procedures were followed as opposed to the quality of the employer's decision, when requests for flexible working were refused;

  • the need for the leave entitlements in the legislation to be extended to carers, and not just the biological parents;

  • why there was a service qualification requirement for paternity leave, when no such qualification was needed for maternity leave.

6. Correspondence

Members noted information from DEL on their role in administering the European Social Fund.

Members considered a response from DEL on the action taken in response to the Northern Ireland Audit Office Report on 'Corporate Governance and Financial

Management in Colleges of Further Education,' and agreed that further detail was required.

Action: Clerk

Members considered information from DEL on the centres of excellence in the further education sector and agreed to request further information.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the Minister's response to the Committee's concern at the proposal to transfer responsibility to the Home Office for the administration of applications for work permits received from Northern Ireland employers. It was agreed to write again to the Minister, expressing the Committee's continuing concerns, in light of the current employment circumstances in Northern Ireland.

Action: Clerk

Members considered a response from DEL on the process for the provision of advice and guidance to potential students on social security benefits. The Committee agreed to respond, highlighting their concern at the apparent absence of an effective, joined-up approach in this area.

Action: Clerk

Members considered an update from DEL on the Henry Garrett Building at Stranmillis University College. It was agreed to forward the information to the Committee for Education, who had asked to be kept informed and to include the Committee's support for the Department's bids in this area in the response to the Budget 2002 process.

Action: Clerk

Members considered financial information from DEL on their bids and easements in the June 2002 Monitoring Round. Members noted that the minister for Finance and Personnel was likely to make a statement to the Assembly in week commencing 1 July 2002. Members agreed to seek clarification from DEL on their bid to meet additional Departmental Running Costs and to seek a position paper on the Springvale campus development as it was running behind schedule.

Action: Clerk
Members noted information from the Committee for Education on the draft Education and Libraries Bill.

Members noted the following correspondence:

  • OFMDFM's Report on the Initial Consultation Exercise on the Single Equality Bill; and
  • the Committee for Social Development's Second Report into Housing in Northern Ireland (Homelessness).

7. Legislation

Members considered DEL's response to queries raised by the Committee on the pre-draft Statutory Rule under the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986. Members were content with the policy implications of the proposed legislation.

8. Chairman's Business

The Chairman informed members that he was to address the Association of Northern Ireland Colleges' seminar on 'Women's Issues, Access and Participation in Education and Further Education,' on Friday 21 June 2002.

9. Any Other Business

The Committee considered a response from the University of Ulster on their recent advertisement for an Outreach Officer in the North Belfast area. It was agreed to monitor how this worked in practice in the future.

10. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting

On Thursday 27 June 2002 at 2.00pm in Room 152 Parliament Buildings, to include evidence from DEL officials on the Employment Bill.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 4.35pm.

Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning
27 June 2002