COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: TUESDAY, 11 JUNE 2002 ROOM 135, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Dr Ian Adamson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr Arthur Doherty MLA
Mr David Hilditch MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew Peoples
Mr Colin Jones
Mr Paul Stitt
Mr Michael Meehan

Apologies:
Mrs Joan Carson MLA

The meeting opened at 12.22pm in open session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Briefing from the Minister for Employment and Learning on the proposal to merge the Northern Ireland Hotel and Catering College with the University of Ulster

Members considered the Department for Employment and Learning's (DEL's) synopsis of responses received during the public consultation process on the proposed merger. It was noted that, of sixty-three responses received by DEL, ten responses viewed the proposals positively, but that these may have included some of the key organisations in the hospitality and tourism industry.

Members also considered the Minister's response to the concerns raised by members following the Committee's previous debate on the proposals. These included:

  • whether the proposals also covered both students and staff in Hospitality and Tourism at Magee College;
  • whether the public consultation process initiated by DEL concerned just the merger or specifically involved the merger being sited at Portrush;
  • the implications of the proposal on public expenditure and the respective allocation between the further and higher education budgets;
  • how the list of consultees had been drawn up and why bodies such as the Equality Commission, the National Union of Students/Union of Student in Ireland (NUS-USI) had been omitted;
  • whether the policy proposal had been equality proofed;
  • the rationale for further relocation, as a centre of excellence in catering and hospitality had already been established at the University of Ulster following a previous relocation;
  • who had commissioned and paid for the economic appraisal carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and DEL's role in the appraisal process;
  • whether PwC had been commissioned to appraise Portrush as a specific site for the merger or whether alternative locations were also considered;
  • why DEL had classified the appraisal as 'commercial-in-confidence;'
  • whether consideration had been given to locating other courses at the Portrush site; and
  • how DEL had accounted for PwC's concerns that 'in the medium term it may be desirable to consider other locations for the merged organisation to ensure the benefits of the merger are sustained over the longer term.'

Members considered correspondence from Coleraine Borough Council on the merger and agreed the contents of a response. It was agreed that this should be made available to all members at the next meeting.

Action: Clerk.

Mr Carrick asked for it to be noted that he had already responded to the letter as an individual MLA.

12.40pm. Dr Adamson joined the meeting.

Members noted correspondence from Carrickfergus Borough Council expressing their opposition to the merger.

Members considered correspondence from the Northern Ireland Assembly's Director of Legal Services and noted that, under the current legislation contained in the Further Education (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, DEL's order to provide for the discontinuance of an institution of further education is not subject to any Assembly procedure.

Mr Carrick, Mr Dallat, Mr Hilditch and Prof McWilliams declared an interest.

Members were briefed by Mrs C Hanna MLA, Minister for Employment and Learning, Mrs C Bell and Mr D McAuley, DEL, on the Department's role in the proposed merger. The Committee were told the following:

  • the economic appraisal had been commissioned by the Northern Ireland Hotel and Catering College (NIHCC), with DEL's role to ensure that the appraisal was carried out to stipulated government standards;
  • the public consultation initiated by the Department had attracted a wide range of respondents, including support from key representatives in the sector;
  • whilst the proposed location was the central concern raised in the consultation process, the University of Ulster had autonomy to decide on the location of its courses;
  • existing students at the University of Ulster would not be affected by any merger;
  • the Minster would not make a final decision on the merger before taking on board the Committee's views.

The following issues were then debated:

  • why PwC had recommended the merger even though they had cast doubt on its sustainability in the longer term;
  • the existing synergy between the University of Ulster and the NIHCC and how the merger would improve provision for students;
  • the fact that some students at the University of Ulster already travelled between campuses to attend courses;
  • how the Department had addressed the concerns expressed in the public consultation process;
  • the widespread locations at which students gained work experience in the hospitality and catering sector;
  • the potential effects of the merger on staff at both the University of Ulster and the NIHCC;
  • the potential impact of Foundation Degrees provided in Further Education Colleges to attract students to hospitality and catering courses;
  • why DEL was empowered only to make a decision as to whether the merger should proceed and not on its location;
  • the possible effects of the establishment of a centre of excellence in Portrush on FECs such as Newry, which had already been designated as a centre of excellence in hospitality and catering;
  • the fact that both the Northern Ireland Hotels Federation and the Tourism Training Trust had raised concerns regarding the proposed merger, whist DEL had counted them for the proposal;
  • the significant one-off and ongoing costs of the proposal and the accompanying change in the budget balance between the further and higher education sectors, on which the Committee's financial scrutiny powers under the 1998 Northern Ireland Act would bear;
  • whether the Department may be underwriting a decision which may not attract sufficient students to be sustainable in the future;
  • the number of applications received to study hospitality and catering courses at the University of Ulster in the 2002/03 academic year;
  • who had ultimate responsibility for equality proofing the proposal, given that the University of Ulster's Equality Scheme had not yet been approved by the Equality Commission;
  • the limitations on bringing alternative courses to the Portrush campus as there were already other FECs operating in the catchment area; and
  • the fact that it was a decision for the University of Ulster how to provide for students currently studying hospitality and catering courses at Magee College.

The Minister undertook to provide the Committee with further information regarding the equality proofing of the proposal and the number of applications for catering and hospitality courses at the University of Ulster in the 2002/03 academic year.

Members noted the commitment in the economic appraisal that a post project evaluation would be carried out within one year, if the merger was approved.

Members noted that, although the Department had contacted the Equality Commission, it would not respond until the end of the consultation process.

The Committee agreed that a quick decision was needed in relation to the proposed merger and that they would finalise the outcome of their deliberations on Thursday 13 June 2002, subject to receiving the additional information from DEL.

3. Any Other Business

The Chairman informed members that the Minster was to make a statement in the Assembly later today on last week's incident at the Belfast Institute of Further and Higher Education. He was commended for issuing a press release on the incident and it was agreed that this should be forwarded to all members.

Action: Clerk.

4. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting

On Thursday 13 June 2002 at 2.00pm in Room 152 Parliament Buildings, to include evidence from the Federation of Small Businesses in relation to the Committee stage of the Employment Bill.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 1.45pm.

Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning

13 June 2002