Committee for Finance
Minutes of Proceedings - 22 May 2024
Committee for Finance - Minutes of Proceedings 22 May 2024.pdf (186.69 kb)
Meeting Location: Room 21, Parliament Buildings, Belfast
Present:
Matthew O’Toole MLA (Chairperson)
Diane Forsythe MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Nicola Brogan MLA
Nicola Brogan MLA
Eóin Tennyson MLA
Gerry Carroll MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Steve Aiken MLA
Phillip Brett MLA
Paul Frew MLA
Apologies:
Deirdre Hargey MLA
In Attendance:
Peter Hall Committee Clerk
Clairita Frazer Assistant Assembly Clerk
Stephen Magee Clerical Supervisor
Heather Graham Clerical Officer
The meeting commenced at 1:05pm in public session.
1. Apologies
As above.
2. Declaration of Interests
None.
3. Chairperson’s Business
3.1 Conference Invitation: Collaborating for Impact
The Committee noted a conference invitation from THRiVE: Collaborating for Impact on 4 and 5 June 2024.
Agreed: Members agreed to indicate to Committee staff if they wished to attend the conference.
4. Draft Minutes
Agreed: The Committee agreed the Minutes of Proceedings from the meeting of 15 May 2024.
5. Matters arising
5.1 Minister of Finance - Non-Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) Scheme.
The Committee considered a response from the Minister of Finance regarding a request for information on the Non-Domestic RHI Scheme tariff.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Finance requesting detail of its queries in relation to the business case addendum which sought approval to revise the tariffs for the Non-Domestic RHI tariff in November 2023. Following consideration of a response, Members will decide what further action they may wish to take.
5.2 Department of Finance – Permanent Secretary Reshuffle
The Committee noted clarification from the Department of Finance on the policy context for a permanent secretary “reshuffle” as referenced in AQW 10815/22-27.
5.3 Department of Finance – Non-core Funding Pots
The Committee noted a response from the Department regarding the various non-core funding pots including, the Shared Island Fund, Shared Prosperity Fund, Levelling up Fund and Community Ownership Fund.
5.4 Hansard Transcript – Ulster University Economic Policy Centre Briefing – Draft Executive Budget 2024-25
The Committee noted the Hansard transcript of the Ulster University Economic Policy Centre briefing on the Draft Executive Budget 2024-25 on 8 May 2024.
5.5 Hansard Transcript – Department of Finance Special EU Programmes Body Briefing – Replacement Funding Streams and PEACE PLUS Programme
The Committee noted the Hansard transcript of the Department of Finance Special EU Programmes Body Briefing on Replacement Funding Streams and PEACE PLUS Programme on 8 May 2024.
5.6 Department of Finance – Update on “disciplinary matters” element of the RHI Inquiry
The Committee considered a response from the Department regarding update on policy changes to the Civil Service Discipline Policy which are scheduled for implementation during 2024/25.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to request sight of the Review into Civil Service Disciplinary Policy and for the detail and timeline for the policy changes scheduled for implementation during 2024/25. Members also agreed to request clarification on the current position in relation to changes to the Code of Conduct and Code of Ethics which were to have been implemented previously.
Members noted the importance of obtaining all this information prior to an anticipated briefing session with the Head of the Civil Service.
6. SL1 The Whole of Government Accounts (Designation of Bodies) Order
(Northern Ireland) 2024
The Committee considered a proposed statutory rule which would enable the Department of Finance to request information from those Departments and bodies designated and to pass the information provided to HM Treasury for use in the preparation of the Whole of Government Accounts.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the proposed Statutory Rule which would enable the Department of Finance to request information from those Departments and bodies designated and to pass the information provided to HM Treasury for use in the preparation of the Whole of Government Accounts.
7. Draft Executive Budget 2024-25 – Oral Briefing from NICVA
Agreed: The Committeeagreed that the briefing should be reported by Hansard.
The following witness joined the meeting at 1:18pm;
Celine McStravick,NICVA Chief Executive.
Gerry Carroll joined the meeting at 1:29pm.
Diane Forsythe declared an interest as the Chair of the All-Party Group on Voluntary and Committee Sector.
The witness briefed the Committee on NICVA’s assessment of the implications and impacts of the 2024-25 draft Executive Budget with a particular emphasis on the voluntary and community sector.
The briefing was followed by a question and answer session, a number of issues were discussed including the absence of a Programme for Government, the significance and value of the voluntary and community sector and workforce, loss of core grant funding, the role of the voluntary and community sector in relation to transformation, multi-year budgets, and social value opportunities.
Phillip Brett left the meeting at 1:58pm.
The witness left the meeting at 2:03pm.
Paul Frew left the meeting at 2:03pm.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek a copy of research on the voluntary and community sector workforce referenced during the session.
8. Draft Executive Budget 2024-25 – DoF Budget position for 2024-25 - oral briefing from Departmental officials
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the briefing should be reported by Hansard.
The following officials joined the meeting at 2:04pm;
Stewart Barnes, Director of Finance Division, Department of Finance; and
Gillian Blair, Finance Division, Department of Finance.
The officials briefed the Committee on the updated Department of Finance budget position for 2024-25.
Paul Frew rejoined the meeting at 2:07pm.
The briefing was followed by a question and answer session, a number of issues were discussed including confirmed earmarked allocations for Interg8, Nova and Housing Benefit, specific updated actions to live within the Budget 2024-25, timeline and steps to realise the savings identified by the Department, the budget allocation for the Fiscal Framework and Sustainability Plan and potential budget allocations from Windsor Framework and Transformation.
The officials left the meeting at 2:27pm.
Steve Aiken left the meeting at 2:27pm.
9. Restatement of March Forecast Outturn 23-24 –Written Briefing by the Department of Finance
The Committee noted a written briefing from the Department of Finance on the Restatement of March Forecast Outturn 2023-24.
The Committee also noted a copy of a written Ministerial Statement on 2023-24 Approach to Further Forecast Underspends which was made on 20 May 2024.
The Committee suspended at 2:29pm and resumed at 2:34pm.
10. Draft Executive Budget 2024-25 – Oral briefing by Departmental officials
Agreed: The Committeeagreed that the briefing should be reported by Hansard.
The Committee noted a response from the Department regarding the October Monitoring Round.
The Committee noted a Department of Finance publication: Budget 2024-25.
Steve Aiken rejoined the meeting at 2:35pm.
The following officials joined the meeting at 2:35pm;
Joanne McBurney, Budget Director and Head of Public Spending Directorate;
Maryann Smyth, Head of Central Expenditure Division; and
Patrick Neeson, Public Spending Directorate.
The officials briefed the Committee on the Draft Executive Budget for 2024-25, its implications and potential impacts. Officials also briefed Members on the Interim Fiscal Framework signed by the Minister of Finance on 21 May 2024.
The briefing was followed by a question and answer session. A number of issues were discussed during the session, including detail and timeline for additional monies available for allocation in June monitoring, arrangements for the Joint Exchequer Committee, a review of the Executive’s relative need, earmarked capital projects and Programme for Government.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek detail on the total amount of Financial Transactions Capital which has been handed back over the last number of years.
The Chairperson thanked the officials for their attendance.
The officials left the meeting at 3:53pm.
11. Engagement on the draft Executive Budget 2024-25 – Agreement of Committee Report
Agreed: The Committee agreed to move into closed session at 3:54pm to consider the draft Committee report on Engagement on the Draft Executive Budget 2024-25.
The Committee considered a draft of its Report on its Engagement on the draft Executive Budget 2024-25.
Title Page, Committee Membership and Powers, Table of Contents and List of Abbreviations
The Committee considered the Title page, Committee Membership and Powers, Table of Contents and List of Abbreviations as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Title page, Committee Membership and Powers, Table of Contents and List of Abbreviations pages stand part of the Report.
Introduction/Timeline of Consideration
The Committee considered the Introduction/Timeline of Consideration section (paragraphs 1 to 14) of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committeeagreed that it wascontent that the introduction section at paragraphs 1 to 14 stand part of the Report.
Committee Approach
The Committee considered the Committee Approach section (paragraphs 15 to 19) of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committeeagreed that it was content that the Committee Approach section at paragraphs 15 to 19 stand part of the Report.
Department of Finance – Departmental Budget
The Committee considered the Department of Finance – Departmental Budget section (paragraphs 20 to 23) of the report as drafted.
Members discussed amendments to paragraph 23 of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content that the Department of Finance – Departmental Budget section of the report at paragraphs 20 to 23 as amended stand part of the Report.
Northern Ireland Audit Office, Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman and Northern Ireland Assembly Commission
The Committee considered the Northern Ireland Audit Office, Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman and Northern Ireland Assembly Commission section (paragraphs 24 to 27) of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it wascontent that the Northern Ireland Audit Office, Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman and Northern Ireland Assembly Commission Section of the report at paragraphs 24 to 27 stand part of the Report.
Assembly Statutory Committees
The Committee considered the Assembly Statutory Committees section (paragraphs 28 to 29) of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed it wascontent that the Assembly Statutory Committees Section at paragraphs 28 to 29 stand part of the Report.
Key Themes Identified
The Committee considered the Key Themes Identified section (paragraphs 30 to 72) of the report as drafted.
Members discussed amendments to the Key Themes identified section of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content that the Key Themes Identified Section at paragraphs 30 to 72 as amended stand part of the Report.
Conclusion
The Committee considered the Conclusion (paragraph 77) of the report as drafted.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the conclusion at paragraph 77 stand part of the Report.
Appendices
The Committee considered the Appendices section of the report as drafted.
Members noted that the Appendices section of the report as drafted would be updated in due course with this week’s evidence to include Hansard Transcripts when available, minutes of proceedings and any relevant briefing papers.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that theAppendices stand part of the Report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that a link to the publishedreport would be issued to all the organisations and committees who provided evidence to the Committee.
Agreed: the Committee agreed to move into public session
The Committee returned to public session at 4:22pm.
The Committee noted the agreements which had been reached in relation to the Committee report on Engagement on the 2024-25 Draft Executive Budget.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the report would be published on theCommittee’s webpage and the link issued to all MLAs in advance of Tuesday’s debate on the Draft Executive Budget 2024-25.
Agreed:The Committee agreed that theClerk to finalise the report in light of the evidence given to the Committee today and proposed amendments discussed.
12. Correspondence
- The Committee noted a response from the Department of Finance providing a background paper on the City and Growth deals, pending an oral briefing on 12 June 2024.
- The Committee noted copy correspondence to the Committee for the Economy from the Department of Finance regarding governance issues associated with City and Growth Deals.
- The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for Justice regarding a written paper from the Department of Justice on a proposed Legislative Consent Memorandum (LCM) on Northern Ireland-related provisions in the Arbitration Bill.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek a briefing from the Department of Finance on the implications of this LCM. - The Committee considered correspondence from the Chief Executive and Clerk of the Senedd to the Clerk of the Northern Ireland Assembly regarding a Legislative Consent Motion (LCM) on the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that it would obtain a copy of the Hansard transcript of the Welsh Senedd debate in relation to this LCM. - The Committee noted a Research and Information Service briefing note on Comparative research in relation to the proposed Marriage Bill.
- The Committee noted the Thirteenth Report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules.
- The Committee noted the Fourteenth Report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules.
- Draft Forward Work Programme
The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme, as agreed.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider the Interim Fiscal Framework in greater detail at next week’s meeting and consider scheduling a further briefing in due course.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Forward Work Programme should be published on the Committee webpages.
14. Any Other Business.
None.
15. Date and Time of next meeting
The next Committee meeting will be held on Wednesday 29 May 2024 at 2:00pm in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.
The meeting was adjourned at 4:29pm.
Matthew O’Toole MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Finance
29 May 2024
