Minutes of Proceedings - 21 October 2021
Minutes of Proceedings 21 October 21.pdf (174.75 kb)
Public Accounts Committee
Minutes of Proceedings
Thursday, 21 October 2021
Meeting Location: The Senate, Parliament Buildings, Belfast
Present:
Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Cathal Boylan MLA
Mr William Irwin MLA
Mr Andrew Muir MLA
Present by Video or Teleconference:
Ms Órlaithí Flynn MLA
Ms Cara Hunter MLA
Mr Maolíosa McHugh MLA
Apologies:
Mr David Hilditch MLA
In Attendance:
Ms Lucia Wilson (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Gillian Barker (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Suzanne Patton (Clerical Supervisor)
Inquiry into ‘Addiction Services in NI’ – Agenda Item 6
The Committee noted a short briefing paper on NIAO’s previous 2014 report on Primary Care Prescribing and the increasing prescribing of Pregabalin from 2009 to 2013
The meeting went into Open Session at 2.14 pm.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to formerly write to Mr Matthew O’Toole MLA to thank him for his contributions and hard work during his time as a member of PAC.
The Committee welcomed Ms Cara Hunter MLA as a new member of PAC
The following NIAO Officials joined in the meeting:
- Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG,
- Mr Neil Gray, Director, and
- Mr Roger McCance, Audit Manager.
The following Official joined the meeting remotely:
Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.
1. Apologies
Mr David Hilditch MLA
2. Draft Minutes of 14 October 2021
Agreed: The draft minutes of the meeting of 14 October 2021 were signed and agreed to be published.
3. Declaration of Interests
No declaration of interests
4. Matters Arising
None
5. Correspondence
The following NIAO Officials joined in the meeting:
- Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG,
- Mr Neil Gray, Director, and
- Mr Roger McCance, Audit Manager.
The following official joined the meeting remotely:
Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.
Whistleblower Dossier and Ms Katherine Clarke UCU
The Committee noted correspondence of a ‘Whistleblower Dossier’ and a letter dated 18 October 2021 from Ms Katherine Clarke UCU.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to discuss this matter in Closed Session, under Agenda Item 9.
The meeting remained in Open Session at 2.19 pm
6. Inquiry into Addition Services in NI – Evidence Session
The following Departmental Officials attended the meeting remotely:
- Mr Richard Pengelly, AO DoH
- Professor Sir Michael McBride, Chief Medical Officer
- Mr Brendan Whittle, Director of Social Care & Children HSC Board
- Mr Gary Maxwell, Head of Health Policy Branch DoH
The following Officials were in attendance:
- Mr Kieran Donnelly CB C&AG and
- Mr Stuart Stevenson TOA, remotely
The Committee noted the relevant papers in their pack regarding the ‘Addiction Services in NI’ evidence session:
- NIAO Report ‘Addictions Services in NI’
- Restricted NIAO Papers - Briefing & Preparation Paper
- Restricted NIAO Paper - Suggested Question Areas
- Biographies of the Department Officials attending
- Extract from NIAO 2014 Report ‘Primary Care Prescribing’ regarding Pregabalin
Mr Richard Pengelly AO DfH made an opening statement which was followed by a question and answer session.
Agreed: The Committee thanked the Department Officials for attending and answering questions.
Agreed: The Committee noted they may bring the Department back to give further evidence on this inquiry if required.
Mr Andrew Muir MLA left the meeting at 3.37 pm
Mr Roy Beggs MLA left the meeting at 4.05 pm
The meeting went into Closed Session at 4.05 pm
7. Inquiry into ‘Addiction Service in NI’ - Discussion
The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:
- Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG,
- Mr Neil Gray, Director, and
- Mr Roger McCance, Audit Manager.
The following NIA Officials joined the meeting remotely:
- Ms Claire Turner, Senior Auditor; and
- Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.
The Committee discussed the evidences session with the NIAO Officials who agreed to produce an Issues Paper for the 4 November 2021 meeting.
The meeting remained in Closed Session at 4.17 pm
8. Draft Forward Work Programme
The following NIAO Officials joined the meeting:
- Mr Kieran Donnelly, CB C&AG, and
- Mr Roger McCance, Audit Manager.
The following official joined the meeting remotely:
- Mr Kyle Bingham, Assembly Support Officer.
The Committee noted the September 2021 to March 2022 draft Forward Work Programme and that Dr Jayne Brady HOCS will be attending the meeting of 9 December 2021.
Agreed: The Committee agreed Mr Mark Browne AO DE and Ms Sara Long CE EA should attend the same meeting regarding further evidence on ‘Closing the Gap – Social Deprivation and links to Education Attainment. The Committee agreed it would like an update on the implementation of ‘SEN’ from Ms Long, either at this meeting or a separate meeting. Both options would be offered to Ms Long.
Agreed: The Committee noted Sir Robert Chote can attend either 25 November or 2 December meeting to give evidence on the inquiry ‘Strategic Review on the Budget Process’.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to amend the draft Forward Work Programme to include the further evidence sessions. The amended programme will be brought back to meeting of 4 November 2021.
The meeting remained in Closed Session at 4.19 pm
Mr Andrew Muir MLA re-joined the meeting at 4.21 pm
9. Any Other Business
The Visit to Boys Model School – 4 November 2021
The Committee noted the arrangements for the visit to Boys Model including COVID risk assessment details. The visit will begin at 9.00 am and end at 10.00 am. It is limited to 5 Members and 1 Staff member.
Agreed: The Committee noted the arrangements and were content.
Whistleblower Dossier and Ms Katherine Clarke UCU
The Committee considered the whistle blower dossier and correspondence dated 18 October from Ms Katherine Clarke UCU. The Committee noted UCU has sent the redacted documents to PAC to ensure there is a political oversight on the matter. The C&AG has also received the full Whistleblower Dossier.
Agreed: The Committeenoted C&AG will examine the documents to decide if they require a formal investigation. The C&AG agreed to come back to the Committee with an update in due course.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write back to Ms Kathrine Clarke to acknowledge receipt of her letter and Whistleblower Dossier.
10. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting
The next meeting of the Public Accounts Committee will take place on Thursday 4 November, at 2.00 pm in The Senate, Parliament Buildings.
The meeting adjourned at 4.23pm
Mr William Humphrey MBE MLA
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee
21 October 2021
