Minutes of Proceedings

The meeting opened at 11.07am in public session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 7 October 2008

Agreed: The Committee agreed, as amended, the minutes of the meeting held on 7 October 2008.

3. Matters arising

3.1 Dual Mandates

Members noted that the Minister for the Environment had not yet responded to the request for a meeting to discuss legal advice relating to ending dual mandates.

3.2 Efficiency Review Panel

Members noted that OFMdFM had not yet responded to the request for a meeting with the First Minister and deputy First Minister about the Efficiency Review Panel.

3.3 Invitation to the First Minister and deputy First Minister

Members noted that there had been no response to the invitation to appear before the Committee.

4. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters

In relation to the matter of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:

Member of the Policing Board

The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.

Members declared the following interests:

Alex Maskey

Member of the Policing Board

4.1 Correspondence

Members noted correspondence from Mr. Jim Allister, QC MEP and Mr. Martin McGuinness, MP MLA

4.2 Committee Membership

Members noted a Committee Briefing Paper and there was a general discussion about Committee Membership.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to extend ‘observer status’ to those parties represented in the Assembly but not, presently, represented on the Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that Party Whips should be encouraged to hold discussions on representation on Standing Committees generally.

4.3 Research Paper

Fiona O’Connell, Assembly Research and Library Services, briefed the Committee on two research papers, tabled.

Agreed: Members agreed that Assembly Research and Library Services should prepare two further papers as proposed.

11.40 am Mr Danny Kennedy joined the meeting

4.4 Committee Briefing Paper on Key Justice Issues

Members noted a briefing paper by the Committee Clerk, tabled.

Agreed: Members agreed that the issues contained in the paper were matters, largely, for consideration, post-devolution.

4.5 Committee Briefing Paper on Further Consideration of Policing and Justice Issues

Members considered a briefing paper by the Committee Clerk, which included a Composite List of Issues which might be examined by the Committee.

Agreed: Members confirmed they had the authority to represent the views of their respective parties on matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice.

The Committee then proceeded to discuss each of the items on the Composite List of Issues and agreed they should be broadly defined in three categories

Agreed:

• Ministerial Model with a single Department with a Single Minister - Category 1

• Will the Policing and Justice Department be additional to the existing 11 Departments? – Category 1

• What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee? – Category 1

• Would the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until the next Assembly election? – Category 1

• What would be the arrangements for removing and/or replacing a Minister once appointed? – Category 1

• The name of the department – Category 1

• Whether, or not, there would be a ‘shadow department’ and a ‘shadow Statutory Committee’ – Category 1

• The appointment of an Attorney General. Should it be a full time role? – Category 2

• Who might be responsible for appointments to the judiciary? – Category 2

• Structure of the Policing and Justice Department – Category 1

• The maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice agreements – Category 2

• The relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/ Department/Assembly – Category 2

• A more ‘independent’ Court Service – Category 3

• The future status of the Probation Board – Category 3

• The question of serving MLAs being members of the Policing Board – Category 1

• Financial Provisions; A budget for a new department – Category 2

• How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom? – Category 1

• Should any budge be ‘ring-fenced’ – Category 1

• The Timing of Devolution - Category 1

• Clarity of matters to be devolved, including, parading, flags and symbols, recruitment to the PSNI and excepted matters – Category 1

• Whether the ‘triple lock’ in the Executive should apply to decisions taken by the Policing and Justice Minister – Category 1

• Location of Powers – Category 1

• What measures need to be put in place to ensure there are appropriate policing arrangements at the point of devolution? – Category 1

• Requirements for a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council – Category 2

• Procedures and protocols between the Minister, the Assembly, the Statutory Committee, the Department and its agencies – Category 1

• Further examination of issues arising from the eventual recommendations of the Ashdown Report on Parading – Category 2

KEY

Category 1 – Issues to be resolved, within the Committee, pre-devolution

Category 2 - Issues to be resolved by the Committee, pre-devolution, but which also require wider consultation

Category 3 – Issues to be resolved, post-devolution

4.6 Timeframe

Members were invited to declare their views on the timeframe for completing the work and there was some discussion.

Mr. Maskey proposed

That the Committee should seek to prepare a report, by mid-November 2008, on a range of issues, classified as Category One Issues, which need to be resolved, within the Committee, pre-devolution.

The Committee divided, Ayes 4; Noes 3.

The motion passed.

Meeting arrangements

Members discussed the arrangements for future meetings.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to meet twice weekly in public session, and to hold longer meetings, until mid-November 2008.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that transcripts of these meetings should be prepared for future publication.

Agreed: The Clerk should develop a Short Term Forward Work Plan to be presented at the next meeting of the Committee.

Agreed: Members agreed to re extend the standing invitation to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to appear before the Committee.

Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk should reply to Mr. Allister, QC MEP and that no response was necessary in relation to the letter from Mr McGuinness.

1.16 pm Mr Alex Attwood left the meeting

5. Press Release

Agreed: The Committee agreed the Clerk should prepare a press release to reflect the decisions it had taken, and that this should be cleared by the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson.

7. Date, time and place of next meeting

The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 21 st October 2008 at 11.00am in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 1.19pm.

Mr Jimmy Spratt
Chairperson, Assembly and Executive Review Committee
21 st October 2008