Minutes of Proceedings
Session: 2007/2008
Date: 27 November 2007
ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
Minutes of Proceedings
Tuesday, 27 November 2007
Room 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson, MP (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Ian McCrea
Mr Alan McFarland
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín
Mr George Robinson
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Sinead Nash (Assistant Clerk)
Mr Keith McBride (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Michael Johnston (Clerical Officer)
Apologies:
Mr John O’Dowd
The meeting opened at 11:08am in public session.
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Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
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Draft Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 20 November 2007
Agreed: The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting held on 20 November 2007.
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Chairperson’s Business
3.1 NI Affairs Committee
Members noted that the NI Affairs Committee will be conducting and Inquiry into the administration of policing and justice in Northern Ireland and that the first stage will focus on:
- Financial and operational consequences for the Police Service of servicing ‘historical inquiries’.
- Effect of the ability of the Police Service to bring accused persons to trial in the context of the Public Inquiries Act 2005 and other legislation.
11.12am Carmel Hanna joined the meeting
3.2 Expert Witnesses
Members noted that, in relation to the expert witnesses who have been invited to advise the Committee:
- Lord Woolf was unable to accept because of diary commitments.
- Justice Denham was unable to accept, but invited the Committee to Dublin to have discussions with Members of the Board of the Irish Court Service who are judges.
- Following a recommendation from Justice Denham, and in consultation with the Committee, the Chief Executive of the Irish Court Service, Mr PJ Fitzpatrick, has agreed to assist the Committee. Mr Fitzpatrick will prepare a paper and attend the 18 December Committee meeting.
- An invitation has been extended to Lord Goldsmith. A response has not yet been received.
- Professor John Jackson, Queen’s University Belfast, has agreed to assist the Committee.
Agreed:
- That, in the absence of a response from Lord Goldsmith, the Clerk will seek to engage an expert witness to provide a perspective from England and Wales.
11.15am Danny Kennedy joined the meeting
- That the Clerk will write to Justice Denham to express appreciation for the invitation to meet with members of the Irish Court Service, explaining that timing is a major problem for the Committee and that it may be appropriate to consider a meeting at a later date.
3.3 Invitation from Criminal Justice Inspectorate (CJI)
Members noted that the CJI will be holding a conference for stakeholders in the Criminal Justice System on 17 January under the theme of ‘the devolution of criminal justice in Northern Ireland’.
Members noted that the Chair has been invited to attend this meeting to “provide a perspective on the challenges that the devolution of policing and justice will pose”.
Agreed:
- That it would be inappropriate for the Chair to discuss the Committee’s position before the recommendations of the ‘Inquiry into the devolution of policing and justice’ have been considered by the Assembly.
- That the Clerk will contact CJI to clarify the nature of the contribution they are expecting from the Chair.
- Following clarification from CJI, the Committee will discuss whether it is appropriate for the Chair or other party representatives to attend this conference.
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Matters Arising
4.1 Multiple mandates
The following interests were declared:
Jeffrey Donaldson:
- Member of the House of Commons
- Member, Lisburn City Council
George Robinson:
- Member, Limavady Borough Council
Danny Kennedy
- Member, Newry and Mourne District Council
Carmel Hanna
- Member, Belfast City Council
Ian McCrea:
- Member, Cookstown District Council
Members noted the briefing paper at Tab 2 of their packs and the responses received to date from the parties on the issue of multiple mandates.
Members noted the briefing paper (tabled) which explains what the Committee has been asked to do in relation to this issue and the options for the phasing out of multiple mandates.
The Chairperson confirmed that he had tabled a series of questions at Westminster enquiring about plans the government might have to deal with the issue of multiple mandates.
Agreed:
- That the Committee proceed with an Inquiry into the issue of multiple mandates with a view to producing an initial report and early recommendations to the Assembly in May 2008.
- That the Clerk liaise with Research and Library Services to prepare a draft terms of reference for the Inquiry on multiple mandates including the potential to provide a contextual definition of ‘conflict of interest’.
- That the matter of ‘conflict of time’ should not be a feature of the early part of the Inquiry.
- That there be a phased approach to the Inquiry with a series of reports on each of the matters to be dealt with as follows:
Ministers in local councils
MLAs in local councils
Members of the House of Commons in the Assembly
Members of the European Parliament in the Assembly12.13pm Carál Ní Chuilín left the meeting
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Inquiry into the Devolution of Policing and Justice
The following interests were declared:
Jeffrey Donaldson:
- Member, Her Majesty’s Privy Council
- Member , Northern Ireland Policing Board
Ian McCrea:
- Member, Cookstown District Policing Partnership
George Robinson:
- Member, Limavady District Policing Partnership
This session was recorded by Hansard.
5.1 Matters to be transferred
Members noted that there are five outstanding matters to be dealt with in relation to the ‘matters to be transferred’.
Members noted that responses are awaited from the NIO regarding two of the outstanding ‘matters to be transferred’; the powers of the army to act in support of the police, and the powers in relation to the misuse of drugs.
Agreed:
- That the Committee will address the issue of ‘50:50 recruitment’ following the evidence session with the Chief Constable.
- That the Committee will await the interim report of the ‘strategic review of parading’ before dealing with the parades issue as part of the ‘matters to be transferred’.
- That the Chairperson should table a question at Westminster about the ‘Strategic Review of Parading’.
Members noted the briefing paper (tabled) setting out the options for the devolution of firearms.
Agreed:
- That responsibility for policy development, legislation and general oversight of ‘non-prohibited’ firearms should be devolved.
- There were diverse opinions about the transfer of responsibility for ‘prohibited firearms’.
- That the Clerk will develop wording for potential inclusion in the final report, which might recommend that, on matters where there were diverse opinions, the Assembly would continue to keep under review those matters which continue to be ‘reserved’.
5.2 Chief Constable, PSNI
Members noted that the Chief Constable will provide evidence to the Committee on 8 January 2008 at 11.15am in the Senate Chamber.
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Departmental structure
6.1 Party Papers
Members noted that a preparation pack was distributed on 7 November to assist parties in preparing papers on the governance and accountability issues raised in recent research papers.
Agreed:
- That the Clerk prepare and distribute a consolidated list of questions to be considered as part of the party papers.
- That the party papers will be submitted to the Committee office by 9 January for discussion at 15 January Committee meeting.
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Draft Press Release
Members agreed the draft press release subject to amendment.
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Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 11 December at 11.00am in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12:31 pm.
