Minutes of Proceedings

ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE

Minutes of Proceedings 
Tuesday 25 September 2007
Room 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present: 
Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson, MP (Chairperson) 
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson) 
Mr Alex Attwood 
Mr Nelson McCausland 
Mr Ian McCrea 
Mr Alan McFarland 
Mr John O’Dowd 
Mr George Robinson

In Attendance: 
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Ms Sinead Nash (Assistant Clerk) 
Mr Keith McBride (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: 
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín 
Mr Danny Kennedy

The meeting opened at 10:30am in public session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held 11 September 2007

Agreed: The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting of 11 September 2007.

3. Matters Arising

   3.1 Efficiency Review Panel / North South Ministerial Council Review Group

Members noted the two questions asked of the First Minister and deputy First Minister regarding the Efficiency Review Panel.

Members noted the offers for the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson to meet with Special Advisors to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, with a view to a further meeting with the First Minister and deputy First Minister.

Agreed: That the Chairperson and deputy Chairperson should proceed with the meeting proposed with Special Advisors to the First Minister and deputy First Minister on the basis that this will be an exploratory meeting in advance of a later meeting with the First Minister and deputy First Minister.

3.2 Multiple Mandates

Members noted that no further submissions have been received from the various political parties on the issue of multiple mandates.

Agreed:

• That parties should be encouraged to respond and that the Committee will await outstanding submissions before considering this matter further.

4. Chairperson’s Business

4.1 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee

Members noted that a working lunch has been arranged with the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in the Members Private Dining Room on Tuesday 16 October from 1pm until 2pm.

Members were asked to confirm their attendance.

4.2 Evidence session with the Lord Chief Justice

Members noted the letter received from the Lord Chief Justice stating that he wished to confine his oral evidence to matters relating to the structure of the Court Service and issues around the judiciary.

Agreed:

• That a copy of the letter from the Lord Chief Justice will be circulated to all Members.

4.3 Arrangements for publishing transcripts of evidence

Members discussed the publication of oral evidence.

Agreed: That the corrected version of the Hansard transcripts will be published following each evidence session (including the briefing session with NIO held on 3 July 2007).

4.4 Written submissions: availability of written submissions

Members discussed the matter of making written submissions available in the public gallery.

Agreed: That written submissions from witnesses appearing before the Committee will be made available to those seated in the public gallery.

Alex Attwood joined the meeting: 10:45am

5. Inquiry into the devolution of policing and justice

The following interests were declared:

Jeffrey Donaldson:

• Member, Her Majesty’s Privy Council
• Member , Northern Ireland Policing Board

George Robinson:

• Member, Limavady District Policing Partnership

Ian McCrea:

• Member, Cookstown District Policing Partnership.

Oral evidence from the Northern Ireland Court Service

Members heard oral evidence from Northern Ireland Court Service officials –

David Lavery (Director), Laurene McAlpine (Policy), Jacqui Durkin (Operations) and Siobhan Broderick (Tribunal Reform). The session was recorded by Hansard.  

6. Timetable for future oral evidence sessions

Members noted the current timetable of reporting for the Independent Monitoring Commission as follows:

• Report on Normalisation published on Monday 17 September.
• Next report on Paramilitaries due mid October.
• That based on a 6 monthly reporting cycle, the next report on Paramilitaries is due in April 2008.

Agreed: That the Committee may call the Chief Constable to give evidence in the latter stages of the Inquiry.

Ian McCrea left the meeting at 12:09pm

6.1 Inquiry Timetable

Members noted the proposed timetable for future oral evidence sessions, in particular, the oral evidence session with the Progressive Unionist Party on 16 October. Members noted that the Committee is awaiting a response from the Alliance Party to give evidence on 16 October.

Members discussed the possibility of calling the Public Prosecution Service to give evidence on 16 October.

Agreed : To write to the Public Prosecution Service inviting them to give evidence on 16 October.

6.2 Views from the four main parties

Members discussed the arrangements for hearing the views of political parties.

Agreed:

• To hear oral evidence from the Progressive Unionist Party and the Alliance Party on 16 October with sessions limited to 45minutes.
• That the parties represented on the Committee will discuss each of terms of reference of the Inquiry at future Committee meetings as follows:
  • 9 October: Matters to be transferred.
  • 23 October: Ministerial models.
  • 6 November: Timing and preparations for devolution.
• That Committee meetings on 9 and 23 October and 6 November should take place in open session in Room 144 (but that the Senate Chamber will be reserved if it proved necessary to re-locate because of demand for space in the public gallery).

Ian McCrea returned to the meeting 12:14 
Alan McFarland left the meeting 12:15

6.3 Request for further information

Members reflected on the evidence given by the Northern Ireland Court Service.

Agreed: That the Clerk write to the Northern Ireland Office to request the following information:

• An outline of the existing structure for policing and justice (to include details of the governance and accountability relationships which the various policing and justice organisations have with the NIO and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland).
• A description of the departmental model to which the NIO is currently working and which highlights how, and to what extent, this differs from the existing structure referred to above (to include details of any plans to dismantle or merge existing policing, or justice, organisations).
• An outline of the governance and accountability arrangements which might apply between any new department and the various policing and justice organisations.
• Details of each of the work-streams which the Northern Ireland Office is currently undertaking in relation to the devolution of policing and justice functions, the timeframe for the completion of each work-stream, the progress made to date, and the extent to which the work remains on target or is behind schedule.
• Details of the existing budgets for all aspects of policing and justice (to include NIO costs), an indication of the budgetary allocations proposed for any new devolved structure and the overall ‘financial architecture’ being developed by the NIO for that structure.

6.4 Models

Members discussed the need for information on the existing/proposed models for Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.

Agreed :

• That the Secretary of State’s letter of 28 December 2006 should be re-circulated to Members.
• That a research paper should be commissioned on the non-ministerial Irish Court Service model and the existing/proposed models for Scotland.
• That SOCA and the Security Services be invited to make written submissions to the Inquiry.
• That the Clerk should liaise with Mr Attwood regarding the terms of the letters to SOCA and the Security Services.

Members discussed the need for a written submission from OFMdFM.

Agreed: That the Clerk will communicate with Officials from OFMdFM to say that the Committee would find it helpful if any submission from the First Minister and deputy First Minister, on the devolution of policing and justice matters, dealt, at least, with any discussions that OFMdFM has had with the NIO, or arrangements which that Department might be making, regarding the following matters :

• Appointing the Attorney General.
• Making Judicial and Tribunal appointments.
• Sponsorship of the Judicial Appointments Commission and the Judicial Appointments Ombudsman.

7. Research Paper on Serious Organised Crime Agency

Members noted the research paper on the role of SOCA.

8. Draft Press Release

Members agreed the terms of the press release.

9. Any other business

Members noted the addition of Room 21 as a Committee Room provided an increased opportunity for Committee meetings to be held on, for example, Wednesday or Thursday.

10. Date, time and place of next meeting

The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 02 October at 10.30am in the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings.

There will also be a meeting on Wednesday, 03 October at 10.30am in the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 1.02 pm.

RT HON JEFFREY DONALDSON, MP
Chairperson, Assembly and Executive Review Committee 
25 September 2007