Proceedings of the Committee on the Preparation for Government

9 August 2006

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday, 9 August 2006 in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.

In the Chair: Francie Molloy (until 12.40pm)
Jim Wells from (from 12.40pm)

Present: Alex Attwood
Fred Cobain
Arlene Foster
Dolores Kelly
Gerry Kelly
Danny Kennedy
Naomi Long
Alban Maginness
Alex Maskey
Raymond McCartney
Alan McFarland
Sean Neeson
Peter Weir
Sammy Wilson MP

In Attendance: Debbie Pritchard (Principal Clerk)
Martin Wilson (Principal Clerk)
Jim Beatty (Assistant Clerk)
Pauline Innes (Clerical Officer)

Observing: Stephen Farry (Alliance researcher)
Ciaran Kearney (Sinn Fein researcher)
Philip Weir (DUP researcher)
Mark Neal (UUPAG researcher)

The meeting commenced at 10.07am.

1. Apologies

Mr Durkan MP (Mr Maginness attended the meeting as SDLP representative in place of Mr Durkin MP)

Dr Farren (Mr Attwood attended the meeting as SDLP representative in place of Dr Farren)

Mr Ford ((Mr Neeson attended the meeting as Alliance representative in place of Mr Ford)

Ms Gildernew MP (Mr McCartney attended the meeting as Sinn Fein representative in place of Ms Gildernew MP)

Dr McCrea MP (Mr Weir attended the meeting as DUP representative in place of Dr McCrea MP)

Dr McDonnell MP (Ms Kelly attended the meeting as SDLP representative in place of Dr McDonnell MP)

Mr McGuinness MP (Mr Kelly attended the meeting as Sinn Fein representative in place of Mr McGuinness MP)

Mr McNarry (Mr Cobain attended the meeting as UUPAG representative in place of Mr McNarry)

Lord Morrow (Ms Foster attended the meeting as DUP representative in place of Lord Morrow)

Mr Murphy MP (Mr Maskey attended the meeting as Sinn Fein representative in place of Mr Murphy MP)

Mr Paisley (Mr Wilson MP attended the meeting as DUP representative in place of Mr Paisley)

2. Declaration of Interests

Members declared the following interests:-

• Alex Attwood – member of Policing Board
• Fred Cobain – member of Policing Board
• Arlene Foster – member Policing Board
• Dolores Kelly – member Policing Board
• Danny Kennedy – member Policing Board
• Naomi Long – member District Policing Partnership
• Peter Weir – member Policing Board

3. Previous Minutes

The minutes of the meeting of 2 August 2006 were agreed. 

4. Letter from the Chairperson to the Secretary of State dated 3 August 2006.

The Committee noted the letter from the Chairperson to the Secretary of State dated 3 August 2006 regarding the latter’s attendance at a meeting of the Committee.

5. Revised List on Law and Order Issues

The Committee noted the revised list of issues for discussion.

6. Discussion on Policing and Justice

It was agreed that the order of discussion for the meeting would be:

• Options for Ministerial and Department structures
• Timing of devolution of policing and justice
• Matters for devolution

Mr Wilson joined the meeting at 10.15am.
Mr Kennedy joined the meeting at 10.53am.

It was agreed that Models 3 and 4 (paragraphs 4.3.3 and 4.3.4 of the NIO consultation Paper on the Devolution of Policing and Justice) should be excluded from the Committee’s discussions.

Mr Weir joined the meeting at 11.46am.

Mr Kelly proposed a single Department with shared Ministerial responsibilities. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

It was agreed that there should be a single Department but that the Ministerial arrangements and appointment procedures would require to be addressed later.

Mr Kelly proposed that the Committee should set a timeframe for devolution within the context of the date of restoration. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

Mr Wells joined the meeting at 12.25pm.

Ms Long proposed that a target date for devolution of policing and justice should be set at two years after restoration of the Assembly. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

Mr Wilson proposed the devolution of policing and justice as soon as possible. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

The meeting was suspended at 12.40pm.

The meeting reconvened at 1.10pm with Mr Wells in the Chair

Mr Wilson left the meeting at 1.11pm.

It was agreed that the powers listed at paragraph 3.2 of the NIO discussion paper should be devolved within policing and justice.

It was agreed that a paper should be prepared for the Committee listing Excepted and Reserved matters, including the functions not mentioned in the 1998 Agreement; that the Northern Ireland Office be asked for a written definition of ‘national security’ and to provide copies of protocols on National Security with the main security agencies in Great Britain and advise the Secretary of State that the Committee wishes to discuss this matter with him.

It was agreed that a paper should be prepared detailing the powers of both the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly in relation to law and order and national security issues.

7. Revised Committee Work Programme

The Committee noted the revised work programme.

8. Letter from the Secretary of State dated 3 August 2006

The Committee noted the letter from the Secretary of State regarding plenaries in September 2006.

9. Letter from the Northern Ireland Policing Board dated 7 August 2006

The Committee agreed a response to Prof Sir Desmond Rea’s letter of 7 August 2006.

10. Letter from Clerk to the Economic Challenges Sub-group

It was agreed that the Committee and its sub-group should retain its flexibility and continue to allow substitutes, as and when necessary.

Mr Attwood joined the meeting at 2.10pm.

It was agreed that those nominated as Chairpersons for the sub-group could continue in their joint roles of member and chairperson.

11. Next Meeting

The Committee will next meet at 10.00am on Friday, 11 August 2006 in Room 144, Parliament Buildings to discuss issues relating to Rights; Safeguards; Equality and Victims.

It was agreed that the meeting on Wednesday, 16 August 2006 would be an all-day meeting with lunch provided.

The meeting adjourned at 2.15pm.