Proceedings of the Committee on the Preparation for Government

30 August 2006

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday, 30 August 2006 in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.

In the Chair: Francie Molloy

Present: Alex Attwood
Fred Cobain
David Ford
Dolores Kelly
Danny Kennedy
Alban Maginness
Alex Maskey
Raymond McCartney
Alan McFarland
Ian Paisley Jnr
Peter Weir
Sammy Wilson MP

In Attendance: Nuala Dunwoody (Clerk Assistant)
Martin Wilson (Principal Clerk)
Neil Currie (Assistant Clerk)
Gillian Lyness (Assistant Clerk)
David Douglas (Clerical Officer)
Tim Moore (Senior Researcher)

Observing: Richard Bullick (DUP researcher)
Mark Neale (UUPAG researcher)

The meeting commenced at 10.07am.

1. Apologies

Mr Durkan MP (Mr Maginness attended the meeting as SDLP representative in place of Mr Durkan MP)

Dr Farren (Mr Attwood attended the meeting as SDLP representative in place of Dr Farren)

Dr McCrea MP (Mr Weir attended the meeting as DUP representative in place of Dr McCrea MP)

Mr McGuinness MP (Mr McCartney attended the meeting as Sinn Fein representative in place of Mr McGuinness MP)

Mr McNarry (Mr Cobain attended the meeting as UUPAG representative in place of Mr McNarry)

Lord Morrow (Mr Wilson MP attended the meeting as DUP representative in place of Lord Morrow)

Mr Murphy MP (Mr Maskey attended the meeting as Sinn Fein representative in place of Mr Murphy MP)

2. Declaration of Interests

Ian Paisley Jnr declared the following interests: – member of Policing Board. 

3. Previous Minutes

The minutes of the meeting of 23 August 2006 were agreed.

Mr Cobain joined the meeting at 10.10am.

Mr Maginness joined the meeting at 10.14am.

4. Matters arising

• Letter from the Secretary of State dated 29 August 2006

It was agreed to write back to the Secretary of State regarding: his attendance at a meeting of the Committee; to ask if information on developmental work on accountability for policing matters that bear on national security will be shared with the parties; and to ask if the indicative list of powers the army might need post-normalisation is exhaustive, or are there other issues under consideration?

• Firearms and Explosives

It was agreed that the five options on the devolution of firearms and explosives be brought back for consideration at the meeting on 6 September.

• Residual Justice Issues

It was agreed to defer to the meeting on 6 September, two proposals from Mr Attwood relating to residual justice issues. 

5. Discussion on Rule of Law Issues

Mr Maginness left the meeting at 10.35am.

It was agreed that research should be undertaken on the definition of ‘ceasefire’.

Mr Maginness rejoined the meeting at 10.59am.

Mr Paisley proposed that a detailed inventory of all material decommissioned be published urgently to enhance public confidence in the process. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

Mr Attwood proposed that this Committee endorses the work of the IICD and calls upon paramilitary organisations to co-operate fully and without delay with the IICD in putting illegal weapons verifiably beyond use, and for the IICD to conclude its work as it has publicly indicated. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

It was agreed to defer to the meeting on 6 September, the following proposal from Mr Paisley: “This Committee believes that association with, or support for, those involved in criminal activity is incompatible with the holding of ministerial office.”

Mr Attwood proposed that this Committee believes that the appropriate agencies should, subject to due process, publish as fully as possible details of individuals, gangs or organisations involved in crime. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

Mr Weir left the meeting at 12.12pm.

It was agreed to defer to the meeting on 6 September, the following proposal from Mr Paisley: “This Committee believes that consideration should be given to incorporating in the Ministerial Pledge of Office, support for the rule of law and commitment to urging all others to do so.”

It was agreed to refer the following proposal to the PfG Committee meeting on 4 September: “This Committee believes that a breach of the Ministerial Pledge of Office should be actionable in the courts and followed by disqualification from office.”

Mr Attwood proposed that this Committee calls on all parties to recommend that people join the police; assist the police with enquiries, including into organised crime; encourage people to participate in the policing structures; and to co-operate with other agencies addressing crime and organised crime. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

The meeting was suspended at 12.19pm.

The meeting reconvened at 12.47pm.

6. Any Other Business

Law and Order matters left unresolved

It was agreed that this Committee welcomes the progress made to date on departmental structures and accepts that it requires renewed consideration by all the parties collectively.

Mr Wilson proposed that this Committee believes that policing and justice should be devolved as soon as possible, given levels of public confidence. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

It was agreed to defer to the meeting on 6 September, the following proposal from Mr Attwood: “This Committee believes that policing and justice should be devolved as soon as possible, but is not at this time able to define when.”

Mr Attwood proposed that the Committee should support the Patten recommendation that the Chief Constable should have responsibility for matters in Northern Ireland that involve national security. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

It was agreed that this Committee believes that political representation on the Policing Board should be at MLA level.

Mr Cobain left the meeting at 1.12pm.

It was agreed that this Committee believes that issues surrounding membership of an Assembly scrutiny committee and relationship with the Policing Board be addressed by Assembly Standing Orders.

Mr Attwood proposed that this Committee believes that the appointment of the Police Ombudsman should be devolved, subject to appropriate community safeguards. There was not consensus and the proposal fell.

7. Next Meeting

The Committee will next meet at 10.00am on Friday, 1 September 2006 in Room 144, Parliament Buildings to discuss issues relating to Rights; Safeguards; Equality and Victims.

It was agreed that the meeting on Wednesday, 6 September 2006 would be an all-day meeting with lunch provided.

The meeting adjourned at 1.27pm.