Minutes of Proceedings

The Chairman called the meeting to order in public session at 9.14am.

1. Briefing on Fisheries Issues.

1.1. Meeting with representatives of the Anglo-North Irish Fish Producers' Organisation Ltd.(ANIFPO)

1.1.1. The Chairman welcomed Messrs McCulla, Campbell and Thompson, to the meeting. He then invited Mr McCulla to make an opening statement

1.1.2. Mr McCulla made a statement, following which he and his colleagues answered questions. Issues covered reiterated those raised at the meeting with the Committee on 19 December, and included:

• The disastrous financial situation facing fishermen. The crisis has existed for 18 months, with no action by DARD to respond to their pleas for help
• Previous assurance by the Minister that the Nephrops TAC 'will' be revised in 2001 has recently been changed to 'may' be revised. Urgent action is needed.

Mr Kane attended the meeting at 9.19am.

• MAFF is not prepared to act, and DARD appears impotent in its efforts to influence MAFF or to act to save the Northern Ireland fishing industry.
• Lack of action by DARD in implementing a decommissioning scheme that has been promised since November 1999.
• The EU was quick to impose cod closures, but is slow in implementing decommissioning.
• Concern about a requirement to repay modernisation grant in respect of any modernised boats that will be decommissioned. Modernised boats are more expensive to run.

Mr Savage attended the meeting at 9.24am

• Governments in the rest of Europe are putting transitional schemes in to help their fishing industries. There appears to be an EU provision to cover this - Section 1(c) of Article 16 of the EU Regulation Regarding Compensation 2792/99.
• Confusion as to whether £6m or £8m is the amount to be made available for a decommissioning scheme.

Mr Armstrong attended the meeting at 9.35am.

• Currently running costs are outstripping the value of the available catch.
• The injustice of having to make payments of lights dues, when Republic of Ireland fisherman do not pay.
• Fishermen see a future in the industry, but help is desperately needed at present.
• Concern that their plight was being overlooked.

1.1.3. The Chairman brought discussions to a close at 9.52am.

1.2. Meeting with representatives of the Northern Ireland Fish Producers' Organisation Ltd.(NIFPO).

1.2.1. The Chairman welcomed Messrs Bryant-Brown, Donnan and Walters to the meeting at 9.53am and invited an opening statement.

1.2.2. Mr Bryant-Brown voiced support for the points already raised by Mr McCulla in that fishermen were seriously concerned for their livelihoods in the light of inaction by DARD, despite frequent representations over the last 18 months, in relation to cod closures, Nephrops TAC and implementation of a decommissioning scheme. Other points to emerge were:

• Concern about the prospect of up to 40% of grant aid in any decommissioning scheme ending up as payments to Inland Revenue rather than to the fishermen for whom this EU money is intended.
• In one typical example, if the boat owner were to decommission, a modernisation grant of £89,000 would have to be repaid - having spent up to £30,000 to keep the boat operational in the last year, with crew having to subsist on some £54 per week.
• A warning that if urgent action is not taken, the Northern Ireland fishing industry and the economy of the ports concerned, will die.

1.2.3. The Chairman drew discussions with NIFPO to a close at 10.10am, agreeing to call the representatives back to the table after the discussions with the Minister were concluded.

Mr Douglas attended the meeting at 10.10am.

2. Foot and Mouth Disease Outbreak

2.1. The Chairman welcomed the Minister, accompanied by DARD officials Mr Bob McCracken (Chief Veterinary Officer) and Mr Peter Small (Permanent Secretary), at 10.13am and invited the Minister to speak.

2.2. The Minister made a brief statement calling for the full co-operation of everyone in addressing this national emergency, and setting out the current position and the measures being taken, including:

• The imposition of a 3km exclusion zone around the site of the outbreak in South Armagh where no movement of animals is permitted except for slaughter, with a further 10km zone of strict control on movements.
• All animals on the affected farm have been slaughtered and also on an adjacent farm as a precaution.
• Some sheep from Scotland may have passed through Swatragh and this is being investigated.
• Where people have co-operated, DARD has acted swiftly and decisively.
• The full process of the law will be brought to bear on anyone who is found to have breached restrictions.
• Closure of Forest Parks and agricultural colleges; animal movement ban; DARD staff movement restrictions; advice to Local Authorities and public utilities; and the promotion of a 'fortress farms' mentality.

2.3. The Minister paid tribute to all in the industry and beyond, including the media, for their co-operation to date.

2.4. Following her statement, the Minister answered members' questions and the following points emerged:

• Some animals entering Northern Ireland had not arrived at their stated destination.
• EU regulations do not authorise inspection at the point of entry - only at the destination, and even then it is a percentage check.
• It is not known how many animals coming in for slaughter were not slaughtered, but investigations are continuing and legal action may be involved.
• Compensation for slaughtered animals will amount to the full market price.
• Following discussions at Downing Street, compensation for consequential costs is to be considered as a national issue.
• Other Departments are willing to co-operate and staff and resources are sufficient to deal with the situation at present. An emergency Executive meeting has been called to ensure this.
• There are two 'cold' suspect cases at present - in neither case are there any relevant clinical signs, and test results from one should be available in 48 hours.
• Reports of border-crossing abuse have not reached the Minister, but any specific information will be followed up.
• Extensive publicity has been given to restrictions and advice to farmers and the public through frequent media bulletins and other coverage, and the setting up of a helpline. MLA enquiries are dealt with by the Minister's Private Office.

2.5. Members expressed appreciation for the work that the Minister and her officials had done to date in handling the situation. The Minister undertook to keep members informed of any developments and she and the DARD officials left the meeting at 10.41am.

Mr Ford left the meeting at 10.42am.

3. Fisheries Issues - continued

3.1. Meeting with representatives of the Northern Ireland Fish Producers' Organisation Ltd.(NIFPO).

3.1.1. The representatives from NIFPO Ltd were invited back to the table at 10.43am; the discussion resumed; and the following issues were brought up:

• Fishermen will accept a 'tie-up' scheme, provided they are adequately compensated.
• The decline in the fleet makes the cod recovery programme questionable.
• Boat owners are unable to pay wages for full crew, thus having to reduce crew numbers, with consequent safety implications. Fishermen need a living wage to stay in the industry.
• Safety equipment for one boat last year cost around £9,000. No grant aid is available for this.
• Ongoing correspondence with DARD has proved fruitless.
• Economy of Northern Ireland fishing ports is being annihilated.
• Changes in EU regulations have meant a number of expensive changes in net sizes.
• All these things are putting the fishermen out of business.

3.1.2. The Chairman thanked the NIFPO representatives and they left the meeting at 11.11am.

3.2. Meeting with DARD officials.

3.2.1. The Chairman welcomed DARD officials, Ms E Cummins and Mr J Prentice, to the meeting at 11.12am. They were questioned by members on the issues which had been raised in earlier discussion with the fishermen's representatives and the following was noted:

• The Minister had written to DETR in GB several weeks ago seeking waiver of lights dues for NI fishermen and drawing comparison with ROI. Waiver was refused. This is not a devolved matter at present, but it is intended that it will be, and the Minister has again written to seek reconsideration of DETR refusal of waiver.

Resolved: that the Chairman would write to the Prime Minister, on behalf of the Committee, to seek waiver of lights dues for Northern Ireland fishermen.

• No progress had been made in relation to the decommissioning scheme or reduction in Nephrops TAC since the previous meeting with officials on 19 December 2000.
• ANIFPO would be submitting costings for an interim 'tie-up' scheme to DARD. The EU regulation referred to above, which would appear to cover such a scheme, was drawn to officials' attention. Officials will advise the Minister.
• £8m has been allocated for a 6-year programme, but DFP approval is awaited, and a formal announcement is now expected at the end of March.
• Officials would do no more than accept that there were 'difficulties' in relation to the fishing industry.
• Modernisation grant would have to be repaid where the vessel concerned is subsequently decommissioned.
• 100% grant aid for delivery of training is in the pipeline, but can't be announced until the EU agrees the Objective 1 programme. A member pointed out that the Department of Marine in the ROI was already funding training.
• Although part-approval of the fisheries element of the EU Structural Funds Plan might enable urgent action on decommissioning payments, officials felt that it was very unlikely that part-approval would be forthcoming.
• Although it is understood that fishermen do not use the lights, they are still required to pay lights dues, apparently on the basis that they are there for use by them and other mariners.

3.2.2. The Chairman thanked the DARD officials who left at 11.56am.

3.3. The Committee deliberated.

Resolved: that the Chairman was authorised to send a letter to the Minister summarising matters raised in discussion, and seeking a response in relation to lights dues, decommissioning and a 'tie-up' scheme in particular.

4. Rural Proofing

4.1. The Chairman welcomed DARD officials, Mr D McNeill and Mr N Cornick, to the meeting at 11.57am and asked for an explanation of the meaning of 'rural proofing'.

4.2. Mr McNeill distributed a paper to the Committee and referred to it in reply to members' questions, explaining that:

• The purpose of rural proofing is to ensure that all Departments examine new policies in relation their impact on rural communities in the same way as for TSN and Equality.
• Rural proofing, which has been agreed by the Executive Committee, would apply to major new policies and would not be retrospective unless specific matters were raised in relation to existing policy.
• The Minister is to chair an Interdepartmental Group on Rural Proofing, and a new Unit will be set up in DARD, following approval of the Programme for Government, to administer the scheme and fulfil a training and awareness and monitoring role for all Departments.
• Legislative roles have not yet been decided, but it is expected that the Committee will have a scrutiny role in relation to the new Unit's work, although the full implications for the work of the Committee are not yet clear.
• Additional funds of some £100,000 are to be made available for the new Unit. There will be costs for other Departments in rural proofing their new policies.
• Monitoring and measurement of outcomes have yet to be considered.

4.3. The chairman thanked the DARD officials, who left the meeting at 12.26pm.

Mr Ford returned to the meeting at 12.27pm.

4.4. The Committee deliberated.

Resolved: that members would consider a draft letter to the Department at the meeting on 9 March. The letter would draw attention to possible difficulties in relation to the Committee's remit and implications for its workload, while reflecting the outcome of today's discussions.

5. Beef Quality Initiative Proposals.

5.1. The Chairman welcomed DARD officials, Mr L McKibben and Mr R McClenaghan, to the meeting at 12.27pm.

5.2. In answering questions from members the following was noted:

• DARD sought to include processors in consultations, but got no substantive response on the detail of the proposals.
• The industry is looking at introducing GM-free product, and the feed trade agrees it can ensure GM-free feed.
• DARD wants to use the scheme to increase farmers' knowledge.
• Although there are checks and balances in the classification system, it involves subjective judgement on the day, resulting in some inconsistency in grading. In the long term, DARD is looking at other than 'eye-based' systems.

Mr McHugh left the meeting at 12.46pm

• Proposals are TSN-friendly - support measures will be open to all farmers, including those in less favoured areas.
• There are proposals for payments to farmers at separate stages of an individual animal's life to ensure retention of quality stock.
• Proposals involve a 3 year programme worth £2m per annum commencing in April 2001.
• State aid response is awaited. Expected early summer, but DARD is to meet the Head of the State Aids Unit next week. Officials are confident that the proposals were drafted with State Aid rules firmly in mind.
• The Minister will consider next year whether the Beef National Envelope funds might be linked to quality.
• The Committee will receive further update in due course.

5.3. The Chairman thanked officials, who left the meeting at 1.04pm.

5.4. Resolved: that members would consider a draft letter to the Department at the meeting on 9 March. The letter should reflect the outcome of today's discussions.

6. Subject For Future Inquiry.

6.1. The committee had a short discussion on LMC and DARD's disaster planning as possibilities.

Resolved: that the Clerk would prepare draft terms of reference for an Inquiry into LMC for consideration at the next meeting;

Resolved: that in view of DARD's current preoccupation with the foot and mouth disease outbreak, any disaster planning Inquiry would not be appropriate at this time, and might best be dealt with informally in due course; and

Resolved: that the Chairman should write to the Minister, asking her to make herself available during the current emergency to brief the Committee on a weekly basis as and when developments occur.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 1.10pm for lunch.

The Chairman reconvened the meeting at 1.28pm, at which time Messrs Armstrong, Bradley, Ford, Kane, Douglas, McHugh and Savage were also present.

7. Statutory Rules

7.1. Less Favoured Area Compensatory Allowances Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001. -consultation.

7.1.1. The Chairman welcomed DARD officials Mr R Jordan and Mr P McMurray and invited members who might have an interest in the subject matter of the Regulations to declare their interest. Messrs Bradley, Kane and McHugh made declarations of interest. The Chairman invited the DARD officials to speak.

Mr Bradley left the meeting at 1.32pm.

Mr McHugh left the meeting at 1.36pm.

7.1.2. Mr Jordan explained the regulations in detail and answered members' questions.

The Chairman left the meeting at 1.52pm and the Deputy Chairman took the chair.

7.1.3. The Deputy Chairman thanked the DARD officials, who left the meeting at 1.54pm.

7.1.4. The Committee deliberated.

Resolved: that the Committee agreed that the Department should proceed to make the Rule.

7.2. Pig Industry Restructuring Scheme - proposals for two Rules to enable payments and financial control.

7.2.1. The Deputy Chairman welcomed DARD official, Mr B Gallagher, and invited members to make declarations of interest as appropriate. There were no such declarations.

7.2.2. Mr Gallagher explained the proposed regulations and answered members' questions.

7.2.3. In reply to a question about eligibility for tenant farmers, Mr Gallagher said that he thought that if a tenant meets the conditions he should qualify. If this is not so, he will inform the Committee.

Mr Bradley returned to the meeting at 1.58pm.

7.2.4. The Committee deliberated.

Resolved: that the Committee agreed that the Department should proceed to make the proposed Rules.

7.2.5. The Deputy Chairman thanked Mr Gallagher, who left the meeting at 2.18pm.

7.3. Rendering (Fluid Treatment) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001 - to note proposal.

7.3.1. Members noted that DARD is consulting with interested organisations on this proposed order which introduces controls on the disposal of waste waters from rendering plants.

8. Minutes of Proceedings on 23 February 2001

8.1. Resolved: that the draft Minutes of Proceedings for 23 February were approved without amendment.

9. Matters arising from the meeting on 23 February 2001

9.1. Countryside Management Regulations. Members noted a letter from DARD about the Committee's suggested amendment to the Rule being unnecessary.

9.2.Possible Inquiry - follow-up to PAC Reports.Members noted that the Clerk had written to the Clerk of the PAC and that members will be kept informed of developments. The Rural Development Programme had been suggested as a possibility and members agreed.

Resolved: that the Clerk should draw up draft Terms of Reference for an Inquiry into the Rural Development Programme for consideration by the Committee.

9.3. Offer of Payment to the Specialist Adviser.The Clerk advised members that a letter had been sent to the Specialist Adviser offering full and final settlement of his invoice as directed by the Committee. A tear-off slip had been incorporated in the letter for the adviser to signify acceptance and return. Legal advice was that this was appropriate action. A letter from the Adviser had crossed in the post with the Clerk's letter indicating that work for the Committee continues.

Resolved: that the latest letter from the Specialist Adviser be ignored, pending a response to the Clerk's letter of offer of final settlement.

10. Minister's Response to the Beef Report

10.1. Members noted that the Minister's response had now been received.

10.2. Resolved: that the Minister's response be taken into account when the Chairman moves the motion in the Assembly debate on the Pigs and Beef reports.

11. Any Other Business

11.1. Invitation to Attend IFEX Conference on Marketing Organic and Regional Food. Members considered the invitation to this event, to be held on 3 April 2001 at Balmoral Conference Centre, Belfast.

Resolved: that the Clerk should check if this event is still to take place in view of the current foot and mouth disease emergency, and if so, Committee staff should attend in lieu of members.

11.2. Invitation to visit the Loughs Agency of the Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights Commission. Members noted the Clerk's reply to the Loughs Agency seeking a suitable Friday date for a Committee visit.

11.3.Age profile of BSE cases. Members noted DARD information on the age profile of 54 new BSE cases found recently.

11.4.Assembly Debate on the Programme for Government. Members considered a paper comparing the draft PfG and DARD Public Service Agreement with the final versions, and which also reflected Committee responses to those documents.

11.5.Resolved: that the Chairman should speak in the debate on behalf of the Committee, drawing from the paper and discussions on rural proofing.

11.6. Delay in Payments of LFA Monies. A member raised the prospect of delayed payments in the light of the current national emergency.

11.7. Resolved: that the Chairman will write to the Minister urging that there should be no delay in making payments under any of the Department's grant schemes, and in distributing Agri-monetary Compensation at this time of great need in the agriculture industry.

12. Date of Next Meeting

12.1. Resolved: that the next meeting would take place on Friday 9 March 2001 at 10.00am in Room 135, Parliament Buildings.

The Deputy Chairman brought the meeting to a close at 2.33pm.

Ian R K Paisley
Chairman