Northern Ireland Assembly Tuesday 27 November 2007 Ministerial Statement: Executive Committee Business: Committee Business: The Assembly met at 10.30 am (Mr Speaker in the Chair). Members observed two minutes’ silence. Mr Speaker: At the start of the sitting on Tuesday 20 November, Mr Storey sought a ruling on the issue of a Deputy Speaker having voted on a motion after being in the Chair for part of the debate on that motion. I agreed to come back to the House with a ruling on that matter. In the case to which Mr Storey referred, I have established that the Deputy Speaker was in the Chair for three minutes, or slightly less. In that time he gave advice to the House on a petition of concern and on the time that had been allocated to the debate. The Deputy Speaker heard only a very small portion of the opening speech in the debate, and was not required to intervene during that time. The Deputy Speaker was in the Chair for that short time through no fault of his own. He was due to leave the Chair before the debate commenced. There was an unfortunate delay in my arrival to relieve him, and the Deputy Speaker, quite rightly, continued with business when the previous item on the Order Paper had concluded. In this instance, the Deputy Speaker’s voting — or not voting — would not have altered the overall result. Nevertheless, our convention has been that Deputy Speakers do not participate in debates during which they have occupied the Chair. That is clear from page 13 of ‘The Assembly Companion’ and, in my view, voting on a motion or an amendment clearly qualifies as participation in a debate. With hindsight — despite the very brief time that the Deputy Speaker spent in the Chair — I should have advised Deputy Speakers not to involve themselves in a vote at the conclusion of a debate during which they have been in the Chair. I shall ensure that, in future, that convention is adhered to, and I thank Mr Storey for this example of what I described last week as a valid and helpful point of order. I have made my ruling, and the matter is closed. Lord Morrow: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hear what you have said, and I draw your attention to Standing Order 25(2). I understand that not only did the Deputy Speaker preside and vote, but he had signed the petition of concern that had been presented on the motion that was being debated. Mr Speaker: I thank Lord Morrow for that helpful point of order. I can assure him that it has been noted. Mr Wells: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you accept that it is entirely inappropriate for a Deputy Speaker of this House to sign a petition of concern and then to sit in the Chair, albeit for a brief period, during the debate on the motion on which he has signed a petition of concern? Will you rule that that is inappropriate and should not happen in the future? Mr Speaker: I thank the Member for his point of order. I have ruled that no Deputy Speaker who has been in the Chair during a debate should be involved in the voting on that motion. I am absolutely clear on that. Mr Storey: On a further point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you also make a ruling on the issue of the validity of the petition of concern? If the Deputy Speaker had signed the petition of concern and had given advice regarding it when in the Chair, surely the petition of concern is brought into question and rather than having the required 30 signatures would have only 29? Mr Speaker: My advice is absolutely clear: the petition of concern was valid — very much so. Mr Storey: On a further point of order, Mr Speaker. The Deputy Speaker to whom you refer seems to court some controversy. I ask the Speaker to rule on allegations that have been made in the House of Commons about a story in regard — Mr Speaker: Order. I ask the Member to take his seat. I advise him not to stray into that particular area. He should not do that. Mr Durkan: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you advise the House on what should happen in future? Clearly, the Deputy Speaker was in a situation that was unprecedented and unintended. Following your ruling today, in future, should the Deputy Speaker suspend the sitting until someone else can take the Chair or is he to trapped in a situation that was not planned? Mr Speaker: That situation will not arise again. I can assure the Member of that. North/South Ministerial Council — Tourism Sectoral Meeting Mr Speaker: I have received notice from the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment that he wishes to make a statement regarding the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) tourism sectoral meeting. The Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (Mr Dodds): In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following report on the first North/South Ministerial Council meeting in tourism sectoral format since the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly. The report has been endorsed by Michelle Gildernew. The meeting was held in Dublin Castle on 8 November 2007. I represented the Northern Ireland Executive as Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment along with Michelle Gildernew, Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development. The Irish Government were represented by Séamus Brennan, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. The Council considered a report from Ms Ann Riordan, vice-chair of Tourism Ireland and welcomed the progress that that organisation has made since the last meeting in February 2002. The Council noted the strong growth in visitor numbers and revenue, which are forecast to have grown by 2·17 million and £0·87 billion respectively during that period, including an increase of 391,000 in the number of visitors to Northern Ireland. The Council received a presentation on the future plans of Tourism Ireland from the chief executive officer. It welcomed the broad objectives outlined in Tourism Ireland’s three-year corporate plan, including the two key goals of increasing tourism to the island of Ireland as a whole and supporting Northern Ireland to realise its tourism potential. The Council welcomed the corporate plan’s challenging targets and approved, in principle, the Tourism Ireland corporate plan 2008-10 and the business plan for 2008, subject to budgetary considerations. The Council also noted Tourism Ireland’s annual report and accounts for 2006. The Council agreed that the next meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council in tourism sectoral format should take place in spring 2008. The Chairperson of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment (Mr Durkan): I thank the Minister for his statement and I thank him and his ministerial colleagues for their work at the sectoral meeting. Some time ago, the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment had the benefit of a presentation from Tourism Ireland as well as those other key interests. It is welcome to see a positive perspective on the success of Tourism Ireland Ltd in contributing to a growth in visitor numbers in the island as a whole, and in the North as well. As Tourism Ireland takes forward that marketing responsibility, will the Minister, through the Council and his own office, take steps to ensure that Tourism Ireland is in a better position to engage with the regional tourism partnerships (RTPs) that are performing tourism functions and trying to market local areas? RTPs have been complaining to Committee members that they do not have the positive and active relationship with Tourism Ireland that would allow them to make the most of their marketing role. Mr Dodds: I thank the Committee Chairperson for his remarks, and I assure him that as far as I am concerned the potential for tourism to contribute greatly to the economy of Northern Ireland is well recognised. We have an enormous opportunity to avail of that contribution as we move forward. The Chairperson will be aware that the work of the various parts of the tourism industry was examined recently by the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, which looked at the relationships between Tourism Ireland, the RTPs, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board (NITB) and all of the stakeholders in promoting tourism. It is something that I am looking at very carefully. There is a distinction in marketing responsibilities between Tourism Ireland, which is responsible for marketing in GB and elsewhere, and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, which is responsible for marketing in the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland and for product development. It is important that the RTPs are fully and properly engaged as appropriate with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland, and they can be assured of my support in that regard. Mr Simpson: Does the Minister agree that the annual demonstrations and other events organised by the Loyal Orders offer a unique opportunity to enhance Northern Ireland’s tourism potential, and will he give an indication of his plans to realise that potential? Mr Dodds: Cultural tourism is a major part of the tourism product that most countries and regions offer. In Northern Ireland, particularly, that is something that we can exploit better as we move forward. All studies show that cultural tourism is a major motivator when it comes to travel. Sightseers and culture seekers account for 60% of visitors to the island of Ireland, and those numbers are growing. The Member will be aware that the Northern Ireland Tourist Board has engaged with some of the Loyal Orders on the creation and promotion of Orangefest, and there is a lot of good work ongoing in relation to that. The Member will also be aware of a recent press release issued by the Orange Order in which it was very positive about its engagement with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland in this matter. There is enormous potential for exploiting greater tourism promise in what is a unique series of events in Northern Ireland, and I will work closely with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland to realise that potential. Mr W Clarke: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. It is all very well to talk about increasing the number of visitors, but did any discussion take place on the accommodation infrastructure? I refer to rural accommodation, and especially to hostels and low-budget accommodation. Does the Minister agree that the farming community needs to diversify? If the matter was not discussed at the sectoral meeting, will the Minister table it for inclusion in the spring? 10.45 am Mr Dodds: If the Member reads the corporate plans and the other documents that were tabled for discussion at the North/South Ministerial Council tourism sectoral meeting, he will realise that they covered a vast range of issues. Northern Ireland must do more. It must offer more tourism product, make the best of the skills available in the tourism industry and improve accommodation at all levels, and that includes improving hotel and hostel accommodation. My Department is not the only one responsible for improving the tourism industry — other Departments are also involved. However, we must make progress, because if we are to market Northern Ireland better, and bring more out-of-state visitors to the Province as a result, accommodation is needed in which to put them up. I am pleased to note that progress has been made. Several rural areas are providing high-quality accommodation, not least County Fermanagh, which has a new golf hotel. Other parts of the Province are also making improvements. I will watch carefully to ensure that the accommodation infrastructure continues to improve and that we provide our visitors with the requisite standard of accommodation and number of bed places to meet the growing demand. Mr Cree: Has the Minister any plans to attempt to combine all the industry players’ strategies when establishing the subregional tourism bodies? Mr Dodds: I refer the Member to the answer that I gave a short time ago to the Chairman of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment, in which I dealt with precisely that matter. In my reply, I mentioned the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee’s report, in which it considered that issue. My Department is also considering it. Greater clarity of roles and responsibilities among Tourism Ireland, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and the regional tourism partnerships is necessary, and that will be addressed in the coming months as part of a wider review of departmental tourism-support organisations’ roles and responsibilities. Dr Farry: The Minister mentioned the increase in Northern Ireland’s tourist numbers and tourist revenue. In order to compare tourism as a percentage share of the economy in Northern Ireland with that in the Republic of Ireland, will he indicate what those increases have been overall? There has been a significant gap between the two countries’ levels of development over the years, and the House would be interested to learn whether that gap is closing or widening. Moreover, how can we take steps to rebalance tourism on the island of Ireland? Mr Dodds: I thank the Member for his question, which is an important one. I refer the Member to the corporate plan for Tourism Ireland and to the accounts that contain the figures about which he enquired. As I have already said, those documents formed part of the discussions at the North/South Ministerial Council tourism sectoral meeting. He is absolutely right to point to the need to increase Northern Ireland’s percentage share of tourism revenue and visitor numbers for the island of Ireland. I am keen to ensure that that happens, because it is vital that we exploit our tourism potential. We hope to have more up-to-date figures shortly, but the Member will be interested to note that a study that was conducted in 2003 into the value of the tourism industry to the Northern Ireland economy, and from which the most up-to-date figures come, found that the total income generated by tourism in that year was worth some 3·5% of gross value added (GVA) — £782 million — to the Northern Ireland economy. That study was one of the first of its kind into tourism and its contribution to the economy to be carried out anywhere in the United Kingdom and means that tourism activity supports some 36,700 jobs. Therefore, tourism makes a significant contribution to our economy. In fact, our tourism industry contributes four fifths of what our agriculture industry does to GVA. It is an important contribution to the economy, but the Member is absolutely right to point to the unfulfilled potential and the need to close the gap with the Irish Republic. The targets that we have set out in the Programme for Government for increases in visitor numbers and revenue are challenging and different from what has gone before. Under direct rule, we would not have had that kind of focus on the economic benefits of tourism. Those challenging figures have been put there for a reason: because they can give a major, quick return to the economy. Mr Hamilton: Can the Minister confirm that the Tourism Ireland brand review was discussed at the sectoral meeting? Can he give us an update on the progress of that review and on what its conclusions are likely to be? Mr Dodds: The current brand has been in place since 1995, and refinements to it have been made on two occasions. A major exercise has been under way to look at the brand and reflect the changing nature of life in both Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. It is important that the brand image that goes out across the world is appropriate to today’s circumstances. Tourism Ireland is finalising its report on the review, which will be launched to the tourism industry soon. Tourism Ireland will be launching a new marketing campaign to communicate the new brand message in 2009 and, in preparation for that, will be working with the industry in Northern Ireland and in the Irish Republic throughout next year to ensure full understanding of, and buy-in to, the brand and to develop industry’s awareness of its critical role in developing and delivering that. Mr Brolly: Go raibh maith agat. My colleague Mr Clarke raised the issue of the lack of accommodation and the need to provide more. One of the tourist places in the north-west that is most famous in song and story is Portstewart. One by one, the hotels there have been demolished and replaced with apartments. The place has become an ugly dormitory for the university in Coleraine. Maybe we could move along the coast and look at what is probably the most beautiful part of the north-west and maybe the most beautiful part of Ireland: the Magilligan coast from Downhill to Derry city, with all the possibilities for activity tourism on the beach and on the water. I have made representations to our Southern counterparts, and they would — Mr Speaker: Do I detect a question? Mr Brolly: Will the Minister raise the whole issue of the north-west with his Southern counterpart when they meet again, and see what can be done to develop what is a place of great potential, for tourism and otherwise? Mr Dodds: The Member may be reassured to know that I do not have to wait for the next meeting with my Southern counterparts to deal with that issue. We are addressing it already, and will continue to do so. He mentioned the issue of accommodation, which has also been raised previously. It is, as I have said, a matter that we are very conscious of. It will obviously involve a major contribution from the private sector. I know that some Members have a problem with that, but if we are to see the accommodation issue moving forward, the private sector will have to become more active in that whole area, in terms of both the provision of accommodation and the quality of the experience that is offered to people who stay. The Member will be aware of the Walled City signature project in the north-west; it has received a lot of support, and has progressed very well. It is already making an impact on tourist numbers for the city of Londonderry. Major work has also been done in the Causeway Coast area as part of the signature project programme. The outlook for tourism in the north-west, and in the north of the Province generally, is extremely positive. It is one of our major attractions, and the input of funding and resources will increase that. With regard to accommodation, anyone in the private sector who looks ahead at economic growth will realise that there are enormous opportunities in Northern Ireland, given the expected increase in visitor numbers. The Minister of the Environment, who has responsibility for planning, is present, and I have no doubt that she has heard all that has been said. I hope that cognisance will be taken of the necessary balance between investment for tourist growth and the issues raised concerning planning while preserving the heritage. Mr Shannon: I thank the Minister for his statement, in which tourism was specifically mentioned. I love taking a tour of the Irish coast, along Strangford Lough, to Killynether forest, or to Mount Stewart. Will the Minister elaborate on how he sees tourism in Northern Ireland providing the potential jobs and the economic boost for us all? Mr Dodds: Several Members have waxed lyrical about the beauty of their own areas, and that is to be commended. I well remember an excellent Adjournment debate on the beauties of Strangford: it saved the Northern Ireland Tourist Board from having to write its next brochure on that part of the world. Mr Shannon, who is a Member for Strangford, mentioned potential. In response to Dr Farry, a Member for North Down, I spoke of the current economic contribution. At the onset of the Troubles more than 35 years ago, Northern Ireland lost 80% of its tourism overnight, and has never really recovered from that. A gap exists between those who visit the South and those who come here because of the legacy issues. When that gap is considered, there is enormous potential. A country of Northern Ireland’s size and economy warrants more than the 5% to 7% of resident holiday visitors and approximately 50% of the business visitors from Great Britain who come here. Moreover, there are enormous opportunities to increase the number of visitors not only from Great Britain, but from the Republic. Had Northern Ireland matched, since 1969, the Republic of Ireland’s external-visitor trends, the income from tourism would have been worth an additional £0·25 billion. That shows the potential, and the enormous contribution that could be made to job creation in all parts of Northern Ireland. Mr Elliott: I thank the Minister for his statement, and I suppose that, when Members are lauding their own areas, he will agree with me about County Fermanagh and its potential. I am curious to know whether there was any discussion about plans or proposals to develop the Republic of Ireland site of the Battle of the Boyne. That would increase tourist potential in that area. Mr Dodds: The Member is right to point to the beauties of Fermanagh. He shares a position with me on that, since I was brought up there, and my parents still live there. I take delight in agreeing with him on that point. It does not require a meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council for my Department to progress the matter of the Boyne heritage site and to be interested in discussing it. Many have pointed to its potential tourist growth and, to be fair, the Irish Government have been positive in their contribution. The Member can, therefore, be assured that on that issue — as on the beauties of Fermanagh — he and I are at one. Mr Dallat: I, too, welcome the Minister’s statement. With regard to Mr Simpson’s question on the role of the Orange Order, I have no doubt that, now that it has sent best wishes to the new cardinal, there will be inquisitive visitors from all over the world. Does the Minister agree that Tourism Ireland, with a base in Coleraine, is ideally suited to ensuring that Northern Ireland gets its fair share of international tourism? Will the Minister ensure the House that the development of the lower River Bann and the reopening of the Ulster Canal remain at the top of the agenda in promoting international tourism? 11.00 am Mr Dodds: The Member — quite rightly — raises the matter of the Ulster Canal, part of which is in his constituency. That issue primarily falls within the remit of the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL), and I am sure that that Department will note the Member’s comments. The Member is talking about a tourism product for Northern Ireland. We have an ambitious and challenging target to increase the number of visitors to Northern Ireland to 2·5 million over the period of the next comprehensive spending review (CSR) to 2011. That means investing not only in marketing — which is Tourism Ireland’s job — but in product. Signature projects are important for economic growth, as is local tourism. I want to support all types of tourism product and see them grow. Northern Ireland has a natural beauty and landscape, but we must prioritise the creation of better-quality activities and the provision of more accommodation. Mr O’Dowd: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s briefing on the North/South Ministerial Council’s tourism sectoral meeting. I wish to revisit an issue that was discussed in the House yesterday, but I am conscious of the Speaker’s advice about how far the matter can be pushed. Given the crossover in membership of the events company and the Tourist Board, is the Minister confident that the Tourist Board is in safe hands? Mr Dodds: Given that the Tourist Board falls under the remit of my Department, I can give the Member a categorical assurance that it is in safe hands; I hope that he agrees with me. As the Member said, the Northern Ireland Events Company, which is a matter for the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, was discussed in the House yesterday. In principle, it is planned, after all due diligence has been exercised, that the events company will merge with the Tourist Board as soon as possible. At this stage, I do not wish to comment any further, other than to say that I have confidence in the Tourist Board’s management and in the role of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI). Mr Donaldson: I declare an interest as a member of Lisburn City Council. Will the Minister tell the House what discussions he has had with his counterpart in the South about the reopening of the Lagan Canal in order to develop the Belfast metropolitan area’s tourist potential? The Minister is a member of Belfast City Council, so he will know that Castlereagh Borough Council, Belfast City Council, Lisburn City Council and Craigavon Borough Council have formed a group to progress the reopening of the Lagan Canal. The canal is an important inland waterway that links into Lough Neagh and ultimately into the lower River Bann and Ulster Canal systems. Mr Dodds: The Member has done an excellent, and appropriate, job in advertising the benefits of that scheme, in which various councils are participating. I agree with him about the scheme’s positive impact and the work that has been undertaken to date. He will be aware that that issue falls primarily within the remit of the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, and I will raise that point with my ministerial colleague. My counterpart in the Irish Republic and I agree that it is absolutely vital to raise the quality and standard of the tourism product in order to increase the number of visitors and the revenue generated in the Irish Republic and in Northern Ireland. The project that the Member describes is a key element of that. I have no doubt that, when that project comes to fruition, it will be a big draw and will enhance Lisburn and Belfast. Ms J McCann: I thank the Minister for his briefing on the tourism sectoral meeting. I welcome his comments about cultural tourism and local tourism projects. Does he have any plans to develop local, community-based tourism projects such as Coiste, which is a republican ex-prisoner group in west Belfast? Such projects attract large numbers of visitors each year. Mr Dodds: I refer the Member to my earlier comments about cultural tourism. It is important that the tourism product contains a mix of projects. I cannot respond in the House today about the particular project that the Member has mentioned. However, now that it has been drawn to my attention, I will look at what the project entails. It is vital that both visitors and local residents are comfortable with tourism projects, and their product, because local people who go on day trips generate a great deal of our tourism spend. Any allocation of funds to projects that receive public money to support them must be done in a fair, neutral, impartial and balanced way. Mr Buchanan: The Minister has touched briefly on my question. Is he satisfied with the profile given to the Walled City signature project in Londonderry? Does he agree that the project has tremendous potential, particularly as we approach the four-hundredth anniversary of the plantation of Ulster? Mr Dodds: The Walled City signature project has enormous potential. I was recently in Londonderry, where I visited some elements of the project, the progress on which was very encouraging. The Member mentioned the four-hundredth anniversary of the plantation of Ulster. In a recent discussion with a delegation from the local council and the Dean of Londonderry, I had the opportunity to talk about the anniversary. How that event should be marked is being planned. It is an important anniversary, which includes a number of significant events, and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and local stakeholders in Londonderry will want to mark it. For visitors to Northern Ireland who seek cultural tourism and attractions that are linked to our history, the plantation of Ulster rates as one of the more significant events. Mr Spratt: Is the Minister satisfied that the amounts allocated to the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland in the draft Budget will ensure that targets are met? Mr Dodds: The Member raises an important matter. In the draft Programme for Government and the comprehensive spending review, we have put our money where our mouth is. Under direct rule, there was a great deal of talk about boosting tourism and the economy, but the resources, emphasis and centrality required to do that were not recognised. That is the difference between the draft Programme for Government and the comprehensive spending review and what went before. Significant additions have been made to the resources and capital given to the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. Tourism Ireland’s resource allocations have also increased significantly. There is a long way yet to go, however. I could argue a strong case in the House for even more resources to be provided, but I will instead continue to argue that case in an appropriate manner, because I recognise that a balance must be struck on all expenditure issues. The Minister of Finance and Personnel, who is at my side and will have heard what I said, recognises, as do my colleagues, the importance of the economy, and the importance of tourism to the economy. I am confident that the challenging targets that have been set will be achieved. The increased resources, and the drive behind those resources, will ensure that we achieve the value for money and delivery that will produce the necessary results. Mr Boylan: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I declare an interest as a member of Armagh City and District Council. Being from one of the beautiful parts of the North — Armagh City, the ecclesiastical capital — I am aware that we have the cardinal coming on Thursday and that the area has huge tourism potential. How does the Minister intend to enhance that potential? Mr Dodds: I am sure that the First Minister, who is present, will endorse the Member’s comments about Armagh, as it is his birthplace. The Member will be aware that the St Patrick/Christian Heritage signature project, which is one of the five signature projects for Northern Ireland, is primarily based in the urban centres of Armagh and Downpatrick, although, obviously, it has a resonance for all of Northern Ireland and wider afield. That project is extremely important, and the draft Budget is providing £3·5 million to take it forward. A revised action plan will be produced to: develop key sites along the trail of places associated with St Patrick; engage with the private sector; and extend the product across Northern Ireland and into the Irish Republic. The signposted St Patrick’s Trail route will be ready for summer 2008. Mr Speaker: That ends questions on the ministerial statement. Review of Domestic Rating Reform Mr Speaker: I have received notice from the Minister of Finance and Personnel that he wishes to make a statement regarding the review of domestic rating reform. The Minister of Finance and Personnel (Mr P Robinson): I have just been made aware that there is a difficulty in that, apparently, copies of my statement are not outside the Chamber for Members. I do not know whether that will make any difference to proceedings. My statement is long, and I do not print, copy and distribute it myself, but I think Members would like to have it in their hands. Mr O’Loan: On a point of order. It would be very difficult for Members to address themselves to the statement and ask questions without having a copy. I would like a decision on that, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker: It might be useful if the Minister could clarify when the statement will be available to Members. Mr P Robinson: I have an empty box at the moment for some reason, so I am unable to give you a response. Mr Speaker: Will the Minister continue? Mr P Robinson: I will speak slowly to allow the Department to catch up with me. I am making an announcement today about the outcome of the Executive’s review of the domestic rating system that was introduced in April under direct rule and that fulfils the commitment I made to the Assembly in June when publishing the terms of reference for the review. Today’s announcement, taken together with other recent announcements on the draft Budget, will further demonstrate our commitment to making a real difference for householders in Northern Ireland. We must remember that what really matters to people is the level of rates that they have to pay, so any changes that we make need to have that proviso. Annual rate increases must be kept to a minimum, otherwise the whole system becomes discredited. I set about the task even before taking office by ensuring, along with others, that the link with the reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) was broken in advance of restoration. That link was ill-conceived and simply created the conditions in which there was no incentive to save money, and higher rates became an end in itself. Let us not forget that the regional rate went up by 62% over the past five years under the previous Administration. My recent announcement on the draft Budget to freeze the domestic regional rate over the comprehensive spending review period confirms my intentions in that regard. That regional rates freeze, and this further package of reliefs, are in addition to the commitment that we have given that householders will see the benefit of the contribution that they already make to the cost of water through their rates — an average of £160 for each rates bill. Against that background I present these proposals to the Assembly today. It is only 195 days since I commissioned the review. In that short time we have covered a lot of ground, generated much debate and consulted broadly; ultimately, we have had to make difficult choices. 11.15 am I am confident that the package of proposals that I intend to announce today is a balanced one that will lead to a more acceptable system and a better distribution of the rating burden among householders in Northern Ireland. However, I cannot pretend that it has been an easy task, particularly given the timetable to which we were working — a timetable driven by the desire to make changes in time for next year’s bills. No one expected that it would be straightforward, as will be found with any review that seeks to satisfy competing interests. In addition, the process has confirmed that we have to be realistic and recognise that if we had been starting from square one, things might have been very different. Radical change now will only lead to a different set of winners and losers. Although I would be the first to recognise the limitations of any property tax system, I believe that, with the right checks and balances, the current system, based on capital values, can be made much fairer. Getting the right checks and balances is, therefore, what I have focused on, and is what I believe we have achieved through the package of proposals that I am presenting to the Assembly today. Before I outline the proposals, I record my gratitude to the 119 individuals and organisations that responded during the 12-week consultation period that ended on 31 August 2007. Their informative and considered responses have undoubtedly helped to shape the outcomes of the review, and I have made it my business to ensure that the key messages conveyed through the process have been addressed. The Committee for Finance and Personnel also made a massive contribution to the process. Its thorough and efficient approach was critical to the review timetable remaining on track, and I am particularly grateful to the Chairman and members for giving me advance sight of their report for that purpose. I am even more pleased to report that the Committee’s contribution can be clearly seen in the outcome of the review, with many of our recommendations aligning. I will turn now to the proposals. Members will recall from my earlier statements that the review was to be taken forward in two strands in line with the terms of reference. Strand one involved a thorough examination of the options for change that could be delivered within the scope of the existing primary legislation in time for next year’s rates bills. Under that strand we also looked at ways in which that legislation could be changed to further improve the system in the medium term. Strand two concentrated on longer-term options for raising revenue through local taxation, either as alternatives or supplements to the domestic rating system. That approach has led to the preparation of a number of proposals, which are presented to the Assembly as a cohesive package. In my view, they complement one another well, providing the right balance between protecting those most affected by the previous reforms and those most in need, namely our pensioners, and also attending to wider policy objectives. In summary, the package includes proposals for a 20% single-pensioner discount for ratepayers aged 70 and over and living alone; an increase in savings thresholds from £16,000 to £50,000 for pensioners under the existing lower-income relief scheme; measures to improve the take-up of relief; the introduction of a deferment scheme as a choice for pensioners who own their own homes; a reduction in the maximum capital value; the rating of empty homes; rebates to encourage the provision of energy-efficiency measures for homes in Northern Ireland; and further evaluation and consultation on student rate relief and possible alternatives, with a view to abolishing it. Lastly, there will be further work on the option of introducing a derelict-land tax in Northern Ireland. The key changes for next year will be the introduction of a single-pensioner discount set at 20% for ratepayers aged 70 and over and living alone, and the proposed increase in the savings limit applied under the low-income rate-relief scheme from £16,000 to £50,000 for pensioners. Those are targeted measures, and I believe that they will have an immediate and positive impact for a relatively modest cost. That cost will be borne by the regional rate, rather than by other ratepayers. Both can also be provided for through subordinate legislation, subject, of course, to the approval of the Assembly. The increase in the current savings limit is to ensure that pensioners who have saved for their retirement do not find themselves ineligible for rate relief. It is in line with the first-step recommendations of the Lyons Report and reflects the considerable support for such a change during the consultation process. The measure is also supported by the Committee for Finance and Personnel. In addition to that and the extra reliefs for pensioners that were secured during the St Andrews negotiations, I want to address the difficulties facing single pensioners — in particular, those which are a result of the reforms that were introduced under direct rule. The responses that were received during the consultation — many of which were from single pensioners — seem to support that. Analysis that has been undertaken with the help of experts from the Department for Social Development (DSD) has highlighted as a major shortcoming the low take-up of existing reliefs among that group. That is why I am also proposing the introduction of a lone-pensioner discount from April 2008 for those who are over 70 years of age. However, I am not in favour of extending that discount to all single householders. Such a widespread discount would be difficult to justify on grounds of cost, need and vulnerability to fraud. Last week there was much talk in the media about a single-person discount, and claims that, by not harmonising with arrangements that apply under the council-tax system in Great Britain, Northern Ireland is being unfairly treated. It is important that people fully understand that a discount given to any group — whether deserving or not — must, in the long run, be paid for through other ratepayers’ paying more. The cost of a discount for single-person households would be of the order of magnitude of £30 million a year. It is difficult to argue that single-person households represent a vulnerable group that requires such a level of support. Indeed, I pose the question of whether it would be right for young families struggling with large mortgages to be required to pay a supplement in order to pay for people who are affluent but living alone. I have two further points about the proposal for a single-pensioner discount. In its report, the Committee for Finance and Personnel supported the introduction of such a discount for people over 75 years of age. However, on the basis that it would have a much greater impact, particularly in assisting with the major issue of take-up levels, my view is that the age threshold should be 70. I will continue to review whether even lower age thresholds might be justified in the future. Currently, the evidence shows that people who have recently retired from employment are in a better position to pay their rates bill and to avail of rate rebates or low-income relief. According to the family resources survey, the average weekly income of recently retired single pensioners is 30% higher than that of single pensioners as a whole. That survey also shows that the average income of single female pensioners — who make up the vast majority of single pensioners — aged 70 to 74 is approximately 28% lower than for those aged 60 to 64, and 15% lower than for those aged 75 to 79. I propose that the discount level be set at 20%. That, in conjunction with the other proposed support measures such as the increased savings limit, will provide an adequate level of support. The discount will be applied after other reliefs — including transitional relief — have been awarded, in order that the target group will effectively get, and clearly see, the benefit of a 20% reduction in their bills. Before moving on to the proposals for April 2009 and beyond, I will deal with the important issue of the low take-up levels of reliefs in Northern Ireland. As the report of the Lyons Inquiry into local government in England shows, that issue is not unique to Northern Ireland. However, urgent action is clearly required here, particularly in the owner-occupied sector, where the take-up rate for those who are eligible for the new lower-income rate-relief scheme is estimated to be 42%. As I said, pensioners, in particular, are not taking up that relief. A review of good practice in benefit take-up levels elsewhere has highlighted a number of broad actions that might be taken in order to improve rates-relief take-up levels in Northern Ireland. The Committee has recommended that those actions should be vigorously pursued. In light of that, and as a matter of urgency, I propose to commission a study, led by the voluntary and community sector, to identify actions that might be taken to support Government awareness and take-up strategies next year. The possibility of new legislation giving increased data-sharing powers to relevant agencies will also be examined as a matter of urgency. That will be subject to the completion of a privacy impact assessment to protect the interests of our citizens and to ensure that the data is safeguarded. As well as the proposals for next year, I am pleased to present several further proposals to the Assembly that will take slightly longer to implement but will provide further checks and balances to ensure that the overall system is as fair as possible. Staying on the theme of pensioners, the first proposal is for the introduction of a voluntary deferment scheme for homeowning pensioners. Essentially, it will involve rolling up rate payments at a concessionary rate of interest until the sale of the house and then securing the debt by creating a charge on the property. Such schemes are not uncommon in other jurisdictions. Although take-up is usually very low because of inheritance considerations, such a scheme can suit better-off pensioners who are beyond the income limits of the lower income relief scheme. Such a scheme would require subordinate legislation to be passed, which could be achieved by April 2008, subject to the Assembly’s approval. However, complex administrative arrangements must be developed before it could be fully implemented, and further consultation on the detailed mechanisms would be desirable. Therefore, April 2009 has been set as the earliest date for the introduction of a deferment scheme. Looking more widely, another successful outcome of the St Andrews negotiations last year was the introduction of a maximum cap set on properties with a capital value of £500,000 or more. It is clear that that move has helped to allay some of the public’s fear about the excessive impact of the new system. However, is the cap set at the right level? My view is that it is not, and I am attracted to the idea of setting it at the lower level of £400,000. Although the number of households that would directly benefit from such a move would be fairly low — about 5,000 in total — it would bring the highest bills under the rating system here into line with the average bills in the highest band of the council-tax system. That is a fairer comparator than the absolute highest council tax bill, which provided the rationale behind the initial cap level. I shall consult further on the issue, as I am keen to take account of developments on water charging and, in particular, what cap, if any, will be proposed there. Bearing that in mind, I propose to reduce the cap in April 2009, with final confirmation of its level to be made following consultation. So far, I have dealt with some of the necessary checks that the rating system must have if it is to be fair, but what about the balances? A popular measure during the consultation exercise, and with the Committee for Finance and Personnel, was the rating of vacant domestic property — not least because of the potential net revenue gain it could yield. Taking account of exemptions, and assuming that the DFP agency responsible for rate collection — Land and Property Services —— is fully equipped and resourced to implement the policy, the revenue gain could be in the region of £15 million to £20 million per annum. However, the policy is more than a device for raising revenue; it could assist with wider policy objectives, such as housing affordability. That was the subject of the recent Semple Report, which is being taken forward by the Department for Social Development. Given its clear benefits, I propose to introduce the rating of vacant domestic property at a rate of 100% at the earliest possible opportunity, which will most likely be April 2009. That date will give us time to consider the outcomes of the work being undertaken by the University of Ulster, the Northern Ireland Housing Executive (NIHE) and the Department for Social Development’s working group on housing affordability. It will also allow us to further assess and consult on the issue before taking decisions on items such as exemptions or exempt periods that might need to be applied. The review of domestic rating reform also looked at the longer term and considered options as alternatives or supplements to the current rating system. One option that should be carefully considered is the taxing of derelict or vacant land. That would be a complementary measure to the taxing of vacant houses. The idea proved popular during the consultation exercise, and the Committee for Finance and Personnel has recommended that it be given serious consideration. Although the measure could bring in much-needed additional revenue to help fund public services, it could also help to satisfy other wider policy considerations, such as ensuring that there is sufficient supply of development land available. Thus it would assist two policy aims: that of providing affordable housing and that of stimulating economic growth. 11.30 am In announcing our intention to examine that in greater detail, I emphasise that today is merely a first step. We need to consider carefully the positive and negative effects that such a taxation measure could have. A delicate balance has to be struck to ensure that it frees up land for development by providing a disincentive to holding it back, but at the same time does not cause such an imposition on developers that it affects the viability of urban development. Before we can make any decisions about including the measure in legislation, we will have to examine the matter in greater detail and consult with those likely to be affected by such a measure. Therefore, in proceeding with the proposal, I will be working closely with other Departments, particularly the Department for Social Development and, given its role in planning, the Department of the Environment. Depending on the outcome of those considerations, the introduction of a tax on derelict land may simply be an extension of the existing non-domestic rating system, or it may be a new local tax, in which case, it may require changes to the Northern Ireland Act 1998. Some of the responses to the consultation considered that local taxation should be used in a positive way by serving as an incentive to act in a more environmentally responsible manner. That aligns with my Department’s wider commitment to promote sustainable development. Therefore, I wholeheartedly support that aspiration, provided, of course, that it can be delivered in a cost-effective way. Having considered the matter in light of the consultation responses and the Committee’s report, I intend to proceed with the option of providing rate rebates that offer the potential to improve the energy efficiency of our housing stock. I am proposing two measures. First, I want to provide a rate rebate to existing homes that make energy-efficiency improvements, such as cavity-wall and loft insulation. Similar schemes already operate in some local authorities in England, part-funded by schemes set up and supported by the energy generators there. That proposal was submitted during the consultation by the World Wide Fund for Nature, and my officials, along with DETI and other stakeholders, are examining it in some detail. Secondly, I am proposing an initial rate exemption for the first purchase of new homes that are zero-carbon-rated. However, there are some issues of definition, funding and alignment with other initiatives that have to be worked through regarding those matters. Therefore, I intend to ask my Department, working with the Committee for Finance and Personnel, other Departments such as DETI, and stakeholders such as Northern Ireland Electricity (NIE), to draw up detailed proposals with a view to introducing new primary legislation to be implemented in April 2009. The review also critically examined some of the new relief schemes that were introduced in April this year. One of those was the rate-relief scheme for people in full-time education and training. That scheme attracted much criticism during the consultation process. Many of the respondents thought that the benefit of the relief was going into the pockets of landlords rather than students. Others questioned the effectiveness of the relief, and a number questioned whether that particular group should be a priority for the provision of rate relief. The review also considered the number of applications that have been received so far this year for that relief, which is fewer than 500. That, in itself, draws into question the effectiveness of the policy. Therefore, I am minded to revoke the scheme, providing we can reasonably protect those who have already applied. However, before doing so, an evaluation of the policy and consultation with key stakeholders on the outcome of that evaluation are necessary. So far, I have described what I want to do, provided I get the consent of the Assembly. I will now outline some of the longer-term options that I propose not to pursue, including banding. Although the system of individual capital values has the merit of being easier to understand than banding, I can see advantages to Northern Ireland’s having a system such as the council tax. It is restrained in that those at the top end pay no more than three times as much as those at the bottom end. That makes it more like a charge for services than the rates. Notwithstanding the increasing sensitivities regarding council tax in GB — which I believe has more to do with overloading the system — we could design our own version. However, I recognise that we are not starting from square one. Another fundamental change in the way that local revenues are distributed among householders in Northern Ireland would not only cause more confusion and upheaval, but create a new set of winners and losers. Winners tend to stay quiet; losers do the opposite. The political consequences of changing the order of things again should not be underestimated. That in itself is not a reason to show a faint heart — those who know me cannot accuse me of that. However, I cannot ignore the fact that no significant support for banding emerged from the consultation exercise, witnesses to the Committee for Finance and Personnel, or Committee members themselves. I will not, therefore, take that option forward, but I have agreed to provide the Committee with an update of the analysis of banding that was undertaken when direct rule Ministers decided to proceed with individual capital values. Another major matter that I propose not to take forward is that of a local income tax. That was favoured by many ratepayers who responded to the consultation, although the majority of organisations were against it. It has attractions, in that it offers the prospect of aligning liability more closely with ability to pay. The public perception is understandable, therefore, and it mirrors — and is mirrored — in England, where, during the Lyons Review, the overwhelming majority of those who were surveyed thought that they would be much better off if subject to a local income tax, rather than the existing council tax. However, the reality is somewhat different. It is estimated that a local income tax would cost income-tax payers in Northern Ireland a further 7p in the pound, if we were to raise the same amount of money as is accrued through domestic rates. That is also a tax on work, and therefore it is not in keeping with the Executive’s priority of economic growth. There are serious concerns about the ability and willingness of HM Revenue and Customs to support the introduction and administration of such a scheme. That said, I do not think that we must close the door on it entirely: we can learn lessons from elsewhere, and particularly from Scotland. The Scottish Government have recently decided to abolish council tax and replace it with a local income tax. I understand that that is to be the subject of a public consultation in the coming months. As Scotland proceeds at pace with a local income tax, it is my view, shared by the Committee for Finance and Personnel, that it may be best to maintain a watching brief on developments there for the time being, rather than commission further work of our own on that matter. Another issue that was examined during the review was that of circuit-breakers, which is the curious title given to relief schemes found in some parts of North America, whereby a limit is placed on the percentage of income that defined groups — pensioners, or ex-service personnel, etc — are required to pay in property tax. At first sight, that seems an attractive option. However, several factors effectively rule it out as a realistic option for consideration in the Northern Ireland context. Research shows that, where circuit-breakers exist, there tends not to be the safety nets of other reliefs for the poorest households, such as those that exist in Northern Ireland through the UK-funded housing benefit system. Introducing circuit-breakers here would, therefore, cause major complications in working alongside housing benefit and, potentially, could shift the funding of the support of vulnerable groups from annually managed expenditure to the departmental expenditure limit. Introducing a circuit-breaker system would also be administratively complex, given the need to gather detailed information on the income of all ratepaying households. It will also be vulnerable to fraud. I, therefore, propose not to pursue that option further. I shall now say more about the developments, on which I touched earlier, in respect of water charges. On 15 May 2007, I told the Assembly that I agreed with the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel that it is important that rating reform be viewed in the context of how the Executive intend to address the funding of water in Northern Ireland. Since then, the Independent Water Review Panel has published its first report. The panel recommended that a single bill be issued to households, with rates and water charges separately identified. The Executive have agreed that that proposal should be examined by both the Department for Regional Development and the Department of Finance and Personnel, working together to determine whether and how that might be done. That is now happening. At this stage, there are no conclusions to report to the Assembly. However, I am anxious that the rating reforms that I have announced today are not jeopardised either by the substantial work on IT systems or possible legislative changes that may be required to provide a single bill for water and rates. Many difficult issues must be addressed, not least the fact that the panel is still working on recommendations for a new affordability tariff scheme, the outcome of which could have a major bearing on the ease with which a single bill can be delivered. As I said earlier, I have signalled that people will not be asked to pay twice for water and that there will be an off-setting arrangement with the domestic rates; work on that is proceeding. I will provide the Assembly with further information on that proposal as soon as possible, after the Minister for Regional Development and I report to the ministerial subgroup and the Executive in the new year. Next steps include the publication of a paper later this week that will set out the findings of the rating review in detail, including the options that were considered and those that were not recommended. Some immediate actions must be progressed over the coming months in order to implement the proposals: first, in order to advance the recommendations on single-pensioner discount, I will need to engage in a targeted consultation exercise that takes on board the views of all interested parties before introducing subordinate legislation for April 2008. At the same time, I will progress subordinate legislation to raise the savings limit for pensioners to £50,000 from April 2008. After that, I will begin work on pre-legislative tasks such as the integrated impact assessments and the consultation that is required to introduce the proposals for the rating of vacant domestic property, the proposed deferment scheme for pensioners, an agreed revision to the maximum capital value, and any legislation that is required on rate relief for those in full-time education and training. At the same time, I will engage in preparatory work associated with the primary legislation required to introduce the new rate rebate for energy efficiency and zero-carbon housing. Work will also be required on the legislative implications of the longer-term changes such as derelict land taxation and improved data sharing to facilitate relief take-up. That will require considerable research and discussion with some of my ministerial colleagues. I have outlined cohesive measures to improve the rating system in Northern Ireland to help those most adversely affected or most in need and also to assist in fulfilling broader policy aims. I have learnt through the review that reform of the rating system does not operate in isolation. Every new concession has a cost, either to other ratepayers or to the public purse. This is devolved taxation, and shortfalls are not made up from Government subventions. We must, therefore, adopt a measured and proportionate approach to changing the system through targeting support where it is required. I shall, therefore, keep those measures under review. Raising more money from rating empty homes and derelict land could allow us to enhance some reliefs further, for instance, extending the scope of the single-pensioner discount. No matter what we do, reform cannot possibly satisfy everyone, and we should not try to do that by over-engineering the system — that could have unforeseen consequences. It should be remembered that the rating system’s influence can be wide in other important policy areas such housing affordability, sustainable development and water reform. As I said at the outset, what really matters is what people are asked to pay. Today’s proposals will benefit many ratepayers and, taken together with the Budget proposals, will offer many households much needed relief. Much remains to be done to see the process through to its conclusion, but in making the changes, we are returning the faith that people demonstrated by sending us here. I commend the measures to the Assembly. Mr Speaker: Before I call the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, I remind Members of the nature of the statement: Members must question the Minister on the statement, not make further statements. The Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr McLaughlin): That sounded very pointed, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the initial tranche of domestic rating reforms that the Minister has announced and the fact that so many of them align closely with many of the Committee’s recommendation. I agree that the reforms improve the domestic rating system. A good beginning is half the work, as the Irish saying goes. Will the Minister clarify how the single-pensioner discount of 20% for over 70s will work in practice? Will it apply, for example, in a situation where two unmarried members of the same family live in the same household? Will the Minister state whether he is prepared to consider widening the scope of the discount? Will the Minister outline what the revenue outcomes are likely to be as a result of the reforms that have been announced today? 11.45 am Mr P Robinson: I thank the Chairman of the Committee for Finance and Personnel for the assistance that his Committee gave to me and my Department during the Budget process. I have said, in my statement, that it is important that — in many ways — the reliefs can pay for themselves. The steps that we have taken, in looking at issues such as the rating of vacant properties and derelict land, will release further funds and will, therefore, allow us to consider further reliefs. I was attracted to a lower level of assistance for senior citizens. If, and when, we can afford to do so, I will return to that issue. I have spoken to the Committee’s Chairman about that matter. At present, we are concerned with those aged 70 years and over who live alone. We will consult on that issue. There are some occasions when, for example, there is a medical requirement that a carer should live with someone. Should a person’s bad health disqualify them from having that benefit? Therefore, we will look at particular cases during the consultation process, and I am happy to work with the Committee in resolving those matters. Effectively, the reliefs will not be a charge on other ratepayers — it is important that we make that point at this stage. If we can release further resources by increasing the rate income, we will return to the relief levels and age groups. Mr Beggs: I welcome several aspects of the Minister’s statement, in particular his decision to introduce a tax on vacant properties. The Ulster Unionist Party is a prudent party that encourages positive forms of taxation. Although I welcome the single-pensioner discount, I note that it is limited to single pensioners and those aged 70 and over. Will the Minister explain why he has not taken up the suggestion, made by the Committee for Finance and Personnel, to introduce a universal pension for all those who are aged 75 and over? Mr P Robinson: The Member, who is on the Committee for Finance and Personnel, should take another look at that Committee’s report. The Finance and Personnel Committee proposed a discount for those who are aged 75 and over and who live alone. I have gone a step further by reducing the eligibility age for the single-pensioner discount to 70. I shall look again at the issue to see whether we can do something more in rate relief when we release further resources. My preference, particularly if I take into account the issue of take-up, is to have some form of automaticity about the process so that people are not required to apply for the relief. However, there will be a time lag on that. Therefore, for the first bills, payment will have to be by application. The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Storey): I, too, thank the Minister for his statement and for the good practice that his Department has engaged in when dealing with the Committee on the review. The Committee looks forward to further work on potential long-term reforms. The decision to increase the savings limit for pensioners, which applies under the existing lower-income rate-relief scheme, from £16,000 to £50,000 is in line with the Committee’s recommendation. Will the Minister comment on the extent to which that is likely to boost the uptake of reliefs? Moreover, will he comment on the measures that can be taken to ensure that Northern Ireland does not lose out by funding that uplift locally, were the UK Government to follow suit by raising savings levels as part of a wider reform of housing benefit? Mr P Robinson: I did not bring my crystal ball with me, so my answer cannot be too exact. With regard to the latter point, we might reverse our decisions fairly quickly so that the burden would be on annually managed expenditure, rather than on the departmental expenditure limits. There would be no need for us to carry that burden if the Treasury were going to carry it. We would re-examine the situation in those circumstances. The expectation is that the cost will be reasonably modest, but it can be calculated only after the system has been in use for a period of time. Mr O’Loan: I congratulate the Minister on the review and on the timely fashion in which it has been presented. I accept the Minister’s contention that a property tax with checks and balances is probably as good as it gets at present. The broad thrust of the Minister’s proposals improves those checks and balances. The proposed reduction of the rates cap would be revenue-neutral. Therefore, it would transfer the burden from relatively well-off households to relatively worse-off households. Does the Minister not accept that that would be a regressive policy? How does the Minister square his rejection of the circuit-breaker concept, given the affordability tariff on water? The strand 1 report of the independent water review panel led by Professor Paddy Hillyard has stated that proposals will be made on a water-charge affordability tariff in strand 2 of that review. If it is possible to proceed with that action on one hand, why does the Minister reject it on the other? Mr P Robinson: The reduction of the rates cap will go out to consultation, and further work will be carried out to determine whether that would simply be regarded as lost revenue or reapplied within the rates burden. The Department will make some assessment for the Committee of the extent of any loss of rate revenue if that change were to be made. There is a balance to be struck on whether that is a tax, or a payment for a service. At some point, we must decide whether people have overpaid for that service. Rather than go to the highest band in GB, the Department’s position is that we should take the mid-point of the highest band in GB, which we believe is fair. That is why we are looking at a limit of £400,000. I will provide such statistics as I can to the Member’s Committee. To some extent, Ministers cannot win. If there are ideas that Members like, they wonder why we do not press ahead with them, but when there is no support for those ideas in the consultation process, we are asked whether we should go ahead with them. Those are the issues that must be taken into account. Overall, I have produced what I believe to be a balanced set of proposals and measures. I hope that they are sufficient to attract the support of the Assembly. Dr Farry: I thank the Minister for his statement. There are many aspects to be welcomed, such as the single-pensioner discount, the rating of vacant property, and the energy-efficiency measures. However, does the Minister not recognise that a local income tax would be simpler than bringing an effectively property-based system with checks and balances more into line with the ability to pay through a complex system of reliefs? What consideration did the Minister give to replacing only the regional rate with a local income tax, rather than both the regional rate and the district rate? Will the Minister give the House some idea of his wider approach to green taxes such as pay-as-you-throw schemes, reliefs for people who recycle, congestion charges, or road tolls? Mr P Robinson: Whatever a change from the rating system to an income-tax-based system might be, it certainly would not be simpler. We all know of the upheaval that has been caused over the years by the change in the system. Any change, even if it is for the better, will have considerable consequences for the body politic. Everyone knows that, no matter what system we change to, we will simply create a new group of winners and a new group of losers. The real difficulty with introducing a local income tax system is the fact that economic growth is the priority for Northern Ireland. A tax on work or, more accurately, a tax on workers is not the best way in which to encourage that growth. We have an opportunity to stand back, observe the Scottish model and learn lessons from it. If there are mistakes to be made, let the Scottish Government make them, and we will learn from their experience. We are not ruling out completely the idea of introducing a local income tax, but we can look and learn from the Scottish model over the next few years. We have made the right decision. It is better to remove the sharp edges from the existing system, make it fairer and address the issue of people’s ability to pay, rather than change the system and go into the unknown, as the Member for North Down would like us to do. Mr Weir: I thank the Minister for his thorough statement and in particular for his measures to set the qualifying age for lone pensioner discount to 70, . That will enable more pensioners to qualify than if the age had been set at 75. First, does the Minister agree with the expert opinion given to the Committee that there are no examples in the world of circuit-breakers having been introduced effectively in a domestic rating situation? Secondly, will there be an initial exemption period for the introduction of rates for vacant domestic properties? Mr P Robinson: There was a second element to the question from the Member for North Down Dr Farry. He raised issues about green taxes and whether there was scope for further reform. I am happy to discuss the matter with him and his colleagues to consider whether there is such scope. A consultation process will be carried out on the exercise, and we will attempt to make some progress on those issues. My honourable friend Mr Weir asked whether I accepted the expert opinion on circuit-breakers. I am loath to go against expert opinion on anything, and I have reached a similar conclusion to the experts. Therefore, I am happy to accept their views. There will be a consultation process, and that will allow us to consider the introduction of rates for vacant properties. There may be cases where some properties shall be exempt entirely, and I am sure that some people will want to put forward such proposals. There may be cases for exemption periods, such as the time between a property being vacated — the interregnum — and being sold or re-let. There are issues relating to blighted properties or those that have been purchased for demolition that we must consider. Therefore, it is difficult to establish the exemptions that we will finally agree to. The Committee and the House will want to examine those issues during the consultation process. Mr Brady: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement, particularly with regard to pensioners. The Committee recommended that the availability of automatic rate relief to people of pensionable age should be given further consideration. What is the Minister’s thinking on that? Mr P Robinson: It is an important issue. I agree entirely with the Member and with the Committee. However, it is difficult to consider the matter at this stage. I would like to involve Age Concern, Help the Aged and other organisations so that we can have evidence as to why there has not been a higher take-up in rate relief. During Question Time yesterday, I mentioned that the uptake had been approximately 40% for those in owner-occupied properties, between 60% and 70% for those in privately rented properties and over 90% for those in public-sector rented properties. That shows that there is a need for considerable movement, particularly on the owner-occupied sector. If an automatic system can be established whereby people do not have to apply for rate relief, we will be able to improve the situation. 12.00 noon If we consider the sectors that are most affected by this matter, it is clear that, to some extent, there is a stigma attached to claiming rate relief. People do not want to apply for what they consider to be handouts; we must change the culture and make it clear that rate relief is an entitlement rather than a handout. I suspect that if those people went into a clothes shop in Belfast, they would be among the first to look for a 10% or 15% discount, and that they would have no difficulty with doing that. Indeed, they would feel that they were entitled to ask for such a discount, and, if it were offered, to take it. Rate relief should be no different; it is an entitlement not a handout, and people should apply for it. Mr Shannon: I thank the Minister for his very detailed statement. The Committee for Finance and Personnel examined the issue of enhanced discount for farmers, and it decided that the option would be considered in the context of decisions on other reforms. If a farmer has a property with an agricultural occupancy clause, it will be worth much less than similar properties, yet it seems unfair that the householder should have to pay rates to that effect. I understand from my discussions with estate agents that the value of such a property is probably 40% — perhaps even 50% — less than it should be. In his statement, the Minister outlines proposals for vacant properties and the moneys that such proposals could raise. I think that it was suggested that £10 million could be raised by 2009. Will the Minister also consider reviewing the enhancement discount for farmers? Mr P Robinson: I admire my colleague’s ability to put forward the case for the farming community at all times, and he is right to do so. As I understand it, a benefit has been built in for the farming community, in that farms are reduced in valuation because they are farms, and in recognition of the fact that they can be sold only in a limited market. I am happy to consider whether there should be any distinction between farms per se and those agriculturally tied properties that, in many cases, were given planning permission only because of their farming connection and that cannot be used for any purpose other than for farming. I am always willing to consider and review matters, but, on this occasion, it was felt that the discount that has already been built in to the system for farmers was suitable and appropriate. Mr Cree: I too thank the Minister for his timely statement. Can the Minister provide an assurance that derelict land taxation will not be used to encourage “garden-grabbing” or to impose further taxation on the beleaguered farming community? Can he further assure the House that the proposed taxation will apply to developers who hold land banks and brownfield sites for future development so that such development can be encouraged? Mr P Robinson: I assure the Member that I do not propose to tax his garden. The idea behind derelict land taxation is that it would particularly apply to sites that have been zoned for housing but that are being held back for commercial reasons and for profit. It would ensure that there is a flow of land into the property market, rather than encourage land-banking. It would therefore help the housing Minister to work towards her goal of ensuring that more affordable housing is made available. Obviously, I am not talking about agricultural land. Let me kill off that idea just in case anyone should think that that is the route that is being taken — I do not want to be lynched by the farmers. The proposal will involve derelict land that has been identified for housing but that is not being used for that purpose. Mr Durkan: I thank the Minister for his statement. I appreciate that his focus has been on ensuring that change is deliverable next year and the year after, and I recognise too that some of the more radical options that have been suggested probably could not have been delivered in that time frame. Will the Minister clarify whether circuit-breakers will be applied specifically to pensioner households — not just to single-pensioner households, but to couples as well? It has been argued that if circuit-breakers were applied more widely, they would be open to abuse. However, if one were focused on pensioner households, as was the intention under direct rule when there was a circuit-breaking affordability tariff in respect of water charges as recommended by the Consumer Council, would that not work? Other areas of Government are, rightly, encouraging pensioners to take up pension credit, which is based on a minimum-income guarantee and is their entitlement. In such circumstances, could there not be a cross-reference in the rating system guaranteeing that pensioners will not have rating liabilities that will, in effect, bring them below the minimum-income guarantee for pension credit? That cross-linking could serve to encourage the take-up of pension credit as well as the take-up of rate relief measures. Mr P Robinson: On the latter point, there is an awful lot that could be done if there were greater crossover of data in Government. However, that has other implications about which we must be satisfied. Some of the data relating to the rating system is held in places other than in my Department. Therefore, data sharing would be required. Those matters could not have been resolved in the short term. However, all changes can be considered: they can come at any time if they have merit. As far as circuit-breakers are concerned, during the consultation process there was not the kind of support for pensioner households that the Member believes there was. However, that is not the only reason why it was discarded. The view held by officials is that it did not sit easily and could be disruptive to some of the benefit systems. The Department will do further work to determine whether there are ways around those difficulties and whether there are benefits in introducing some kind of circuit-breaking system. Mr F McCann: Like other Members, I welcome much of what the Minister has delivered to the House. However, will he expand his explanation of the benefits that the measures on vacant properties will have on the hard-pressed housing sector? Mr P Robinson: A number of advantages will flow from those measures. Clearly, there will be the advantage of providing further rating income. As far as benefits to affordable housing are concerned, if people know that they cannot leave their houses empty in the hope that rent levels or sale values will increase, they will know that there is a cost attached. If they are leaving property vacant for financial reasons, there will be an encouragement, or incentive, for them to put their houses back on the market either for sale or to let. Essentially, the measures are a disincentive for people to leave property empty for profit and will allow a lot of property to come back on the market. It is estimated that there is a large number of vacant properties in Northern Ireland: clearly, that must be dealt with. As property values have risen so extensively in recent years, there was a view that if people held off selling their houses, their properties would become more valuable. Therefore, they did not put those properties back on the market, and that has denied other people houses and has made properties less affordable. The measures fit in with the policy objectives of the Department for Social Development and should assist, as a policy lever, to make more properties available on the market. Mr Hamilton: I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome how much it mirrors the Committee for Finance and Personnel’s report on the review of domestic rating. In fact, in many instances, it enhances the report’s proposals. I particularly welcome the increase in the savings limit. Does the Minister have any plans to abolish the savings threshold as proposed in the Lyons Report with regard to council tax? Mr P Robinson: On the Member’s first point, I can only say that great minds think alike. We have reached the same destination and taken the same journey. [Laughter.] I can hear what other Members think about that. The savings threshold has been increased from £16,000 to £50,000, which, in all circumstances, is reasonable. In respect of the removal of the threshold, the Lyons Report asked us to sit back and watch, and that is exactly what we shall do. We will look at how the £50,000 impacts on the householders and whether there is a cause for further revision and removal. I had considered increasing the savings threshold even further, and one of the big issues that will impact on that is increases in the property market, so we will regularly examine our threshold levels to ensure that they are kept in line with the property market. Ms J McCann: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. Considering that such a small percentage of people avail of rates relief, I am grateful that the Minister has commissioned a study, led by the voluntary and community sector, to promote awareness of the take-up strategies. Does the Minister have any plans to go further and finance and resource the voluntary and community sector so that the campaign is bedded in the community, thus making it more effective in its delivery? Mr P Robinson: I want to hear what the voluntary and community sector has to say and what it believes will make a difference in take-up levels. If representatives of that sector have specific proposals that need to be funded, I will examine them. I am considering the pursuance of one possible reason for the low take-up — the amount of form filling that is involved. The form filling may appear complicated to some people, particularly senior citizens, and assistance may be required to complete the forms. Therefore, there may be value in representatives from Help the Aged or Age Concern travelling around areas and offering advice and assistance on form filling. That is the type of area that I am prepared to examine if the voluntary and community sector confirms that the complication of form filling is one of the reasons for the poor take-up of reliefs. The introduction of some automaticity into the process so that people will not have to apply for some of those reliefs will also help. Mr Easton: I thank the Minister for his statement on what can only be good news for the people of Northern Ireland. Will the Minister state why he is proposing to reduce the level of the cap? Mr P Robinson: I have already said that I chose the reduced level because it brings us into the average of the highest band in Great Britain, which is fair and, therefore, a fairly good comparator. That takes some of the pain out of the rate-paying process if a substantial part of the regional rate is regarded as being payment for services, but there must be some linkage with the services that people are receiving, and there must be an upper limit to that. If the GB level is on the top banding — set as it is — our circumstances are such that the midpoint of that top banding is the appropriate place to pitch, and that is why I pitched the cap at £400,000. However, a consultation process is under way, and it would be advantageous to link our cap level to whatever limit is proposed for water charging — if possible. I hope that the Minister for Regional Development will consider the introduction of an upper limit for water charging and that we will be able to co-ordinate the two payments. Mr Armstrong: I welcome the Minister’s intention to reward households that make energy-efficiency improvements. Will that reward apply equally to homes that have been modernised? What percentage of the initial rate will be rebated to owners of new homes that are zero-carbon rated? 12.15 pm Mr P Robinson: I have not set the percentage, or level, of the rate rebate, because my Department is first required to carry out a consultation process. I am happy to hear suggestions from Mr Armstrong — or any other Member — on where that level should be pitched. If I have understood him correctly, the Member asked whether the rebate would be retrospective for homes that already have such efficiency measures installed. That too is an issue for the consultation process. My view is that any homes with those efficiency measures should receive the full advantage of the rebate, irrespective of when they were installed. Mr Ross: The Minister referred to rising house prices. Given the soaring prices across Northern Ireland in the past 18 months, with which everyone is familiar, will the Minister advise the House on what impact that will have on rate bills at the next revaluation? Mr P Robinson: I could go on and on about that, because there is a misconception, if not a deliberate attempt by some members of the press to mislead the public, on that subject. If the price of everyone’s house were to rise by the same percentage, there would be no change in the quantum of their rate bills. A change takes place only when the value of someone’s property increases at a higher rate from that of others, in which case they will pay a higher amount of the overall total. The overall amount of revenue collected does not change; only the distribution within it. If someone’s property decreases in value relative to the overall average in Northern Ireland, their rate bill will decrease; if the value of their property goes up vis-à-vis the overall value of properties in Northern Ireland, their rate bill will go up. It is not the case that everyone’s rate bills will increase simply because of an increase in the overall value of property in Northern Ireland. Ms Lo: Although some pensioners in my South Belfast constituency will benefit from the proposal, many others will continue to pay high rates because of the value of their property. Many pensioners argue that a rate bill still based on property value is unfair, whereas a local income tax would not penalise working people. They have worked all their lives and, on retirement, want to look forward to life without having to worry about high rate bills. What is the Minister’s view on that? Mr P Robinson: Every pensioner who lives alone in South Belfast, and elsewhere in the Province, will benefit from the package that I have announced today. Indeed, the rise in the savings limit for pensioners from £16,000 to £50,000 will probably be of particular benefit to those living in South Belfast. Except where I expressly indicated otherwise in my statement, all existing reliefs remain in place. The reliefs that I have announced today are additional reliefs and, therefore, the package as a whole improves the position for everyone. I cannot agree with the Member’s point about income tax. The Assembly’s priority is to achieve economic growth in Northern Ireland, and it would be a retrograde step to tax working people. It would be a considerable setback in our drive to stimulate the economy. However, the Scottish Executive intend to move in that direction, and I have indicated that my Department will watch their experience to see whether any lessons can be learned. Mr Buchanan: Although the Minister touched on the answer to my question in his response to a previous one, the answer must be clarified for some Members of the House. The Minister will be aware that, in the past few weeks, a member of the SDLP who is also a member of the Finance and Personnel Committee has been scaremongering, saying that the Department was considering the introduction of rating for agricultural land. That led to real concerns in the rural communities that I represent. I am not sure whether that Member was misinformed or misled. For the benefit of Mr O’Loan, I ask the Minister to once more clarify the Department’s position. Is the rating of agricultural land under consideration? Mr P Robinson: There is no question of the Department rating agricultural land. Some Members: Hear, hear. Mr P Robinson: The Department has been clear about that matter and has released a public statement so that there is no doubt about the issue. The only reference to land in my statement is in respect of derelict areas. In response to Mr Cree’s question, I outlined the type of circumstances that will apply to derelict land, and I do not believe that any farmers would define agricultural land as derelict. Mr Wells: Most people would accept that the Minister has achieved a fine balance and a level of consensus on this matter. That will be broadly welcomed by the whole House. We particularly strongly support the incentives for energy-conservation measures and the capital valuation limit of £400,000. I particularly welcome the decision to rate vacant properties, but why is that measure not proposed to be introduced until April 2009? Mr P Robinson: I set out some of those reasons in my statement. I am disappointed — I thought that the DUP’s green Member would have concentrated his question on green issues and on the incentives that I announced in my statement. However, he has decided to address another matter. The timescale is simply a matter of administrative details that must be resolved so that the Department is capable of dealing with those matters. That also allows further time for consultation. It is an administrative matter, and it is proper that we get that right so that the Department is able to deal with these matters, rather than going ahead unprepared and having real difficulties in administering the system thereafter. Mr B Wilson: I too thank the Minister for his statement. I particularly welcome the rebates for zero-carbon housing and energy efficiency. I welcome the fact that there will be further consultation on other green taxes — that is important. However, I was disappointed to hear that the main source of local taxation will remain property values, which are regressive and not based on ability to pay. In a motion that the House debated, I suggested that we consider a land-value tax that would tax developers who are retaining land banks and would release more land for housing. Did the Minister consider a land-value tax, and what were his conclusions? Mr P Robinson: I welcome the Member’s encouragement in respect of the matters on which I had expected him to ask questions. He did not let me down. Mr Wells: Unlike me. [Laughter.] Mr P Robinson: I am a little confused about Mr Wilson’s latter remarks. If he does not consider that I have addressed the issue of land taxation in dealing with derelict land, he can only be suggesting that I should have included agricultural land. He had better have a conversation with the Member for North Antrim Mr O’Loan about that. My statement deals with the vacant land that needs to be dealt with, and we will do further work on that. I would be happy to speak to the Member about green issues, if he wishes, over the period of the consultation. Mr O’Dowd: A Cheann Comhairle, the Minister has stated how he intends to engage with the community sector in respect of rate relief. Will he also clarify how he intends to engage with those who, for their own — or for family — purposes, have had to make disability adaptations to their homes? Many people do not claim the rate relief that is available for that. Will the Minister outline how he intends to engage with that sector? Mr P Robinson: By and large, when adaptations are carried out, there should be good records in the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, the Housing Executive, or some other body. I will certainly look at that matter. There is recognition under the existing system that many adaptations increase the value of a property and that people should not be punished on account of their disability. I am happy to consider finding a way to test the level of uptake from people in those circumstances and whether a special initiative is required to address that issue. Mr Speaker: The Business Committee has arranged to meet today as soon as the House suspends for lunch. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The sitting was suspended at 12.25 pm. On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair) — 2.00 pm Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]: Mr Deputy Speaker: The next item of business is the Executive Committee’s legislative consent motion relating to the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]. The Minister of Finance and Personnel (Mr P Robinson): I beg to move That this Assembly agrees that the provisions in the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill relating to the distribution in Northern Ireland of sums released from dormant bank and building society accounts should be considered by the UK Parliament. I have tabled the motion to seek the Assembly’s agreement to the inclusion of Northern Ireland in the provisions of a Westminster Bill that aims to release millions of pounds from inactive bank and building society accounts and reinvest them in local communities. Alongside that, the rights of customers to reclaim their money, at any time, will be preserved. The scheme was first announced formally in the Chancellor’s 2005 pre-Budget report. Since then, discussions have taken place with the banking industry, followed by two UK-wide public consultations. That has culminated in the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL], which was introduced in the House of Lords on 7 November 2007. Banking and financial services is a reserved matter, and therefore the Assembly could not legislate on this issue. However, in keeping with the spirit of devolution, provision has been made in the Bill for the three devolved Administrations to set the priorities for distribution in their respective jurisdictions. As the Bill proposes to give the Department of Finance and Personnel new executive functions and the power to make an Order setting the spending priorities for distribution in Northern Ireland, the consent of the Assembly is required. The Bill defines dormant accounts as those that have had no customer-initiated activity for a period of 15 years. It is anticipated that dormant accounts could initially amount to more than £500 million across the UK, with tens of millions of pounds recurring annually thereafter. Northern Ireland will benefit alongside the other UK Administrations, on a population basis. Initially, additional resources have been estimated at between £10 million and £20 million, with hundreds of thousands of pounds each year thereafter. In preparation for the commencement of the scheme, financial institutions have already begun a comprehensive exercise to make every effort to reunite customers with their assets. Members may have already noticed advertisements in the local press to that effect. The assets identified in dormant accounts will be transferred by banks and building societies to a reclaim fund. That fund will be independent of the Government and the banking industry, and will be regulated by the Financial Services Authority. It will be the duty of the reclaim fund to retain and invest a prudent portion of the assets in order to meet any future repayment claims from customers. That is a key point, and it will ensure that customers will be able to reclaim funds transferred to the scheme at any time. Assets not needed to meet the reclaim risk, or reasonable running costs, will be released for distribution. In light of its UK-wide infrastructure, its experience in distribution and the efficiency benefits that that brings, the legislation names the Big Lottery Fund as the vehicle for distributing funds throughout the UK. I recognise the valid concerns that many in our community will have about that approach, and I have made strong representations to the Treasury on that basis. In response, the Treasury has assured me that all scheme resources represent a separate and distinct funding stream from lottery funding. Distinct branding will be used for all projects funded through the scheme. That approach will ensure that all projects funded from the scheme will have no links with the proceeds of gambling. I emphasise that the funds will not form part of public spending. The only influence that the Executive will have on the scheme, following the passing of enabling legislation, will be in setting the local priorities for spend and in issuing directions to the distribution body. As this money belongs to customers — albeit unclaimed by them — it sits within the banking sector. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for Government to seize it and spend it directly. As for the priorities to benefit from these assets, the Bill provides a general definition of “social or environmental purposes” on which unclaimed assets may be spent. It is within that overarching theme that the Assembly will be able to set its own spending priorities in Northern Ireland, and those priorities will be reflected in the directions given to the Big Lottery Fund for distribution here. If Members agree the legislative consent motion before them today, I will undertake a consultation in early 2008 on the Northern Ireland spending priorities. I will then bring proposals to the Executive and Assembly for agreement. The dormant accounts scheme has the potential to deliver real benefits to communities across Northern Ireland by freeing up resources that are lying idle in dormant accounts and reinvesting them in needy communities. Should the Assembly give its consent to the Bill’s provisions, it will have an excellent opportunity to set the priorities for spending Northern Ireland’s share of the proceeds. The Executive approved the legislation at a meeting on 8 November, and I now invite Members to do the same. The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Storey): As the Minister has already explained, the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL] is going through Westminster, and Northern Ireland in included in the legislation. The Bill deals with the reserved matter of financial services, and it is the Committee’s understanding that, in the spirit of devolution, the UK Government decided to make provision in the Bill for the devolved Administrations to set spending priorities and to have some input into the distribution of moneys in their jurisdictions. The Assembly’s consent is required in order for Northern Ireland to be included in the legislation, in so far as the Bill contains provisions that confer new executive functions on the Department of Finance and Personnel. As the Minister has explained, the Department will have the power to make Orders that identify the spending areas in which the Big Lottery Fund may distribute funds from the unclaimed assets of dormant bank and building society accounts that are apportioned to Northern Ireland. The Committee for Finance and Personnel held two separate evidence sessions on the Bill with DFP officials, including the principal legal officer in the Departmental Solicitor’s Office. Those meetings were recorded by Hansard, and the Committee decided to publish the minutes of evidence on the Assembly website to ensure that the details of its deliberations were available to the wider body of MLAs and other stakeholders. The Department also provided Committee members with copies of the draft Bill. During the first evidence session on 24 October, Committee members raised a range of issues. These included: the consequences should the Assembly not give its legislative consent; how the alternative scheme for smaller banks and building societies would operate; the risk of reclaim, and the process involved; ethical concerns over the use of the Big Lottery Fund as the distribution vehicle and as a barrier to applications for funding; measures to ensure that spend goes to worthwhile projects; and the reasons why dormant accounts could not be allocated directly to devolved Administrations for distribution. The Committee raised those issues formally with the Department and received a substantive written reply. A further evidence session was held with DFP officials on 7 November, after which the Committee was content that the Department had adequately addressed its specific concerns. On the key question of what the consequences would be were the Assembly not to give its legislative consent to the legislation, the Department advised the Committee that it was likely that the UK Government would still proceed with it as planned, given that financial services is a reserved matter. The Bill would be amended, removing the provisions that confer on DFP the functions of setting the Northern Ireland priorities for spend and giving directions to the Northern Ireland committee of the Big Lottery Fund. Therefore, while the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament would have the power to set out particular spending areas for the money apportioned to them, the Northern Ireland Assembly would not. We would be missing an opportunity to influence the spending priorities for Northern Ireland and to give directions to the Big Lottery Fund. In addition, the voluntary and community sector in Northern Ireland would be unable to feed its views into the local consultation process. In general terms, therefore, while the Committee has reservations about the Bill, including the bureaucracy associated with some of its provisions, Members agreed that a pragmatic approach is required so that Northern Ireland does not lose out significantly. Consequently, the Committee agreed unanimously on 7 November to support the Department of Finance and Personnel in seeking the Assembly’s endorsement of the principle of the extension of the provisions of the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill to Northern Ireland. I support the motion. Mr McLaughlin: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The Deputy Chairperson of the Finance Committee has fully set out the Committee’s deliberations; I am speaking in a personal capacity as a member of Sinn Féin. I support the motion. The Bill is a pragmatic response to the issue of funds that are lying dormant in the reserves of the banking institutions in this state. Its provisions will empower the application of those dormant funds to very important projects that the Executive and, indeed, this Assembly would wish to see addressed. The fact that these funds are benefiting no-one in any particular way is an issue that has been unaddressed for a considerable period of time. There is some comparative experience in the measures that have been adopted South of the border, and it has been seen that, particularly in regard to the social agenda, these funds can be applied where funding might not otherwise be available. It is important to acknowledge the small number of financial institutions that trade solely in this state. They will have the power under this legislation, having taken the proper steps to identify the funding as being in dormant accounts to which there is no immediate claim, to apply it in the areas in which they trade. One or two examples of institutions that trade solely in particular locations have been made known in the background research. In Derry city, for example, where I live, there is one such institution. Funds that are released by this mechanism can and will be applied by that institution in its immediate location. Again, that is to the good. All in all, the concerns that people have about the procedural difficulties can be legally proofed. We can revisit the arrangements if they prove to be inadequate. At this stage, no one can quantify the sums of money involved. They might be considerable, or they might not. However, the question will at least have been answered, and a mechanism devised by which they can be applied to the greater good, rather than lying dormant and obsolete. I strongly endorse the motion and commend it to the House. Dr Farry: I support the motion. This is an advantage to the public purse. Good can be done through these resources being made available. It also works for the banks by removing liabilities from their books. I have little to add to the comments of the last two Members, but I do have a couple of points. First of all, this type of procedure is fairly common internationally. Mr McLaughlin referred to the experience of the Republic of Ireland, and there are many other international examples. This is not something new or sinister that is being put forward by the Government. 2.15 pm Secondly, one small concern is that resources are to be redistributed to the devolved regions of the UK on the basis of population, as opposed to need and — as we are all aware — resources from the block grant are allocated by need, rather than by population. Although I appreciate that the sums involved may be relatively small in comparison with our overall block grant, it is important that that point be made to the Treasury, and that we preserve a needs-based approach to financing. There may be some financial implications for Northern Ireland as a consequence of the change in approach to that formula. A further important point is that the money in dormant accounts belongs to people. The account holder may, sadly, have passed away. Equally, however, the bank may not be able to contect them because they have changed address. It is important that the process for someone who wishes to reclaim his or her funds be as simple as possible, and no more complicated than withdrawing money from any account, albeit that the money will have been transferred to a central fund. Those points notwithstanding, I support the motion. Mr Hamilton: I support the motion, although I am not overly enamoured or enthusiastic about some of the principles underlying the Bill. Some of my Finance and Personnel Committee colleagues and I have expressed our unease at the idea of the Treasury emptying anyone’s bank or building society account. It seems that the of raiding bank accounts has taken a different tack to the one that Northern Ireland has until now, from time to time, experienced. I appreciate that there is a reclaim fund and that, although the money may have been taken and spent, people can still get their money back. The principle that people’s money remains their own is important, regardless of whether activity was last initiated 15 years previously. On balance, it is best that Northern Ireland be included in the provisions of the Bill as it progresses through its various stages at Westminster. It is important that Northern Ireland and the Executive have the opportunity to influence what types of social and environmental purposes are funded. We must set those priorities for ourselves and in our own interests, rather than have a direct-rule-style diktat to tell us what is best for us. I wish to reiterate concerns that I have raised in Committee, and which have been expressed by the Minister, about the body that it is envisaged will distribute any funds that are raised. Members will be well aware of the genuine and deeply held concerns of many individuals, as well as of some Church and community organisations, about dealing with the Big Lottery Fund. I know that the purpose of the Big Lottery Fund is only to manage money; however, impressions are important. I encourage the Minister to continue his discussions with the Treasury to ensure that the branding of the distribution fund is distinct, and that it is made clear that it is not lottery money, thus making it easier for those who are concerned about using the proceeds of gambling to apply for the money. It is important to take a realistic, pragmatic approach. I ask the Minister, in his summation, to elaborate on the possible consequences for Northern Ireland if the legislative consent motion were not passed, and if we were not included in the provisions of the Westminster Bill. Ms J McCann: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Like my colleague Mitchel McLaughlin, I support the motion, which provides a legal framework to allow assets from accounts that have lain dormant for at least 15 years to be distributed to community causes through the Big Lottery Fund. Many bank and building society accounts lie dormant and unclaimed, often because the account holder has died, or because surviving relatives have expressed no claim. Several countries operate similar schemes whereby moneys from such accounts are reinvested in the community. The Bill has already become law in England, Scotland and Wales, and there is similar legislation in the South of Ireland. Although social and environmental themes are the main priorities, individual regions can decide for themselves to what causes assets will be distributed. The Bill will allow for money in dormant accounts to be transferred to a reclaim fund. That means that any individual, or any individual’s relatives who are still living, can — should they wish to do so — make a claim from that fund for the return of that money. An alternative scheme is available for smaller banks and building societies allowing them to transfer an agreed proportion of a dormant account into a reclaim fund and to distribute the remainder to charities that benefit the local community. I want to reiterate Members’ concerns about certain aspects of the le |