northern Ireland Assembly Monday 14 May 2007 Private Members’ Business The Assembly met at 12.00 noon (Mr Speaker in the Chair). Members observed two minutes’ silence. Mr Speaker: It would be useful if mobile phones could be switched off, or even left outside the Chamber. Ms Lo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for me to thank the First and Deputy First Ministers for the civic reception that they held in Stormont last Wednesday for ethnic minority communities? I congratulate both Ministers on a very successful event that sent out a strong message that the Assembly values the contributions of ethnic minority communities and will not tolerate any form of racism against them. Mr Speaker: That is not a point of order, but I have been very liberal in taking it. I am sure that the First and Deputy First Ministers have heard the Member’s statement. Mr Speaker: I must inform Members that I will not be available for plenary business tomorrow because I will be representing the Assembly at a function in Westminster. Private Members’ Business Commonwealth Parliamentary Association Mr Speaker: The Business Committee has agreed to allow one hour for this debate. The proposer of the motion will have a maximum of 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to wind up. All other Members will have five minutes. Rev Dr Robert Coulter: I beg to move That this Assembly agrees to re-apply for admission to membership of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, such membership to be effective immediately on approval of the application by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, and to abide by the provisions of the constitution of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association; that the required membership fee be paid to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association; and that this motion be communicated to the secretariat of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association immediately following agreement. Mr Speaker, this is my first opportunity to address the House since your election to the distinguished office of Speaker. Therefore, I congratulate you on your election and wish you well in the post. As I have known you well for many years, and we have been friends for a long time, I know that you will be a worthy holder of the post. I can already see that you are bringing a dignity and presence to the position and I believe that you will serve the House with great distinction. The motion is an important milestone for the Assembly. In rejoining the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), the Northern Ireland Assembly will re-enter the largest association of free and democratic Parliaments across the world. It is an important statement for the Assembly to make. It says that Northern Ireland is back on a sound democratic track and, once again, is a distinct part of that great democratic worldwide community. This is a good time to reflect on the objectives of the CPA, so that Members can appreciate the importance of the shared democratic values that it represents and why it is important that the Northern Ireland Assembly belongs to it. The CPA exists primarily to promote knowledge and understanding of parliamentary democracy and respect for the rule of law and the individual rights and freedoms that it represents. Active CPA branches exist in 169 national, state, provincial and territorial Parliaments across the Commonwealth, with a total membership of approximately 16,000 parliamentarians. Those figures must make it one of the greatest democratic forums on earth. The CPA was founded almost 96 years ago, on 18 July 1911, when a group of parliamentarians from the United Kingdom and the five then self-governing dominions of Australia, Canada, Newfoundland, New Zealand and South Africa agreed to form an association. That meeting constituted the first formal conference of the British empire’s parliamentarians. One month earlier, those members had gathered in London for the coronation of King George V. Although it was originally known as the Empire Parliamentary Association, in 1920, membership was extended to all of the former colonies of the British empire and to states within the then dominions. With the end of the British empire, the association reconstituted itself in 1949 as the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, and all the newly independent states of the Commonwealth joined as they achieved independence. The CPA comprises the national, provincial, state and territorial Parliaments and legislatures of the countries of the Commonwealth. It is a lively and developing body and is constantly renewing itself. The CPA discusses relevant and important topics and, by bringing together countries across the Commonwealth, it enables parliamentarians to develop new and original perspectives on many problems of the day. It is interesting to note that the CPA’s fifty-third plenary conference is discussing delivering democracy and sustainable development; financial scrutiny across the Commonwealth; global environmental protection; gender equality; and the financing and administration of Parliaments. Those issues are real and relevant. Membership of the CPA would ensure that parliamentarians in the Northern Ireland Assembly were well informed and aware of best practice on all those issues across the globe. Indeed, this month, the CPA is holding a joint conference with the World Bank in British Columbia. There are also ongoing study tours and attachments, Government and Opposition workshops, post-election seminars, study groups and staff development activities, all of which enhance the effectiveness of parliamentarians. In 2004, for example, a joint venture by the CPA and the World Bank Institute explored the setting of benchmarks across a broad range of parliamentary activities and, in so doing, assessed the effectiveness of all the Parliaments in the CPA. Technical assistance programmes have helped local legislatures to address issues that increase parliamentary operational effectiveness, such as modernising Standing Orders. Other workshops have tackled issues such as the relationships between Speakers, Clerks and other parliamentary staff, financial controls, service delivery, the provision of information, security and human resource management. Those issues are all relevant to this Assembly. Issues such as electronic governance and the relationships between central and local government are also explored within the association. It all adds up to better legislatures and, by extension, to a better and more enduring quality of democracy. Membership of the CPA also provides the opportunity for participation in plenary and regional conferences, seminars, visits and delegate exchanges. Special seminars are often arranged at the request of local Parliaments, especially those that have been elected following significant constitutional changes. That is an excellent description of our own situation, and such a conference could afford the Northern Ireland Assembly the opportunity to network with other legislatures across the world. The UK branch of the CPA is hosting the annual conference of the British islands and Mediterranean region in the Stormont Hotel in Belfast from 13 to 17 May. Delegations from all the branches in the region — Alderney, Cyprus, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Jersey, Malta, St Helena, Scotland, the UK and Wales — will be present. In essence, membership of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association will bring real and tangible benefits to the Members of this Assembly. It will put them in the mainstream of a worldwide association and embed this Assembly where it rightly belongs — alongside other democratic legislatures. Our sister legislatures in Scotland and Wales already belong to the CPA, and the Northern Ireland Assembly first joined the organisation in 2001. The time has now come for our Assembly to take its place once again among our parliamentary friends and among the great community of nations and free peoples that make up this truly international body, spanning all continents and income levels and bound by a common heritage of democracy, liberty, justice and freedom under the law. The First Minister (Rev Dr Ian Paisley): It gives me the greatest possible pleasure to support the motion. It is nice to know that our Queen is the head of the Commonwealth; through this motion, we salute Her Majesty. We look forward to the continuance of her good health, because one needs that blessing when one is over 80 years of age. Some Members: Hear, hear. The First Minister: The motion emphasises that the Ulster that we love is part of the Commonwealth and part of the United Kingdom. I do not need to emphasise that matter because the world knows exactly where we stand. 12.15 pm The Commonwealth teaches us that unity is possible amidst diversity. Everyone knows that there is diversity in the House; it remains to be seen whether there can be unity, and the testing days of the future will decide the strength of that unity. I cannot think of a better job at such a time than to address the CPA conference tomorrow, and I look forward to it. I congratulate the hon Lady who made herself heard in such wonderful circumstances and who put one over on the Speaker. From time to time, I may take a leaf out of her book. Mr McLaughlin: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mr Speaker, I want to add Sinn Féin’s congratulations on your appointment last week. The party shares the confidence of other Members that you will bring the qualities of dignity, integrity and fair play to the office. Sinn Féin Members will listen with great interest to the debate; the party recognises that the work of this body is of particular significance to many Members. Sinn Féin acknowledges that this legitimate motion should have been tabled. Inevitably, our history will mean that, from time to time, we will deal with matters that do not sit comfortably with all Members. However, we are living in a time of change and, in the context of current politics and, in particular, in the light of last week’s remarkable developments, it behoves us all to recognise the fact that our community is shared. There is diversity, which is quite legitimate and has significant and sizeable support in the community. If Members are to make politics work, they must strike a balance between all those clashing and competing issues. If we acknowledge that diversity is legitimate, it is within the combined creative talent and genius in the Chamber to chart our way through the issue. Sinn Féin will not vote against the motion. As Members will understand, although the issue is not a matter of primary interest to Sinn Féin, it will not set up any obstacles or cause difficulties for Members who feel that the motion reflects their cultural, political and social affinities. Go raibh míle maith agat. Mr A Maginness: Congratulations, Mr Speaker, on your appointment. It is good to see a Donegal man in the Chair. I also share some Donegal blood; my mother comes from Rathmullan, so we have that bond in common. The SDLP supports the motion that has been tabled by Rev Robert Coulter. It is important to establish international links with other democracies throughout the world, and the motion is a step in that direction. The previous Assembly, of course, was associated with the CPA. Indeed, some Members of that Assembly were involved in various exercises and conferences that the CPA promoted. However, a central point to remember is that membership of the CPA should not be an exercise in junketing. It should be taken seriously, and our membership should have a serious purpose: the promotion of parliamentary democracy throughout the world. Our contributions to whatever CPA forums we attend should be fearless in their support for parliamentary democracy and human rights. We should not remain mute when those who violate human rights and undermine democratic principles appear at those conferences. We should fearlessly say to them that they are wrong; that they are undermining democracy; that they are attacking human rights; and that they have no place in the civilised world of parliamentarians. Therefore, we should take our role in the body very seriously. We have spent many years building democracy here, and it seems that we have at last agreed to share the democratic institutions and the Executive and to build a new society based on shared values. It is important for us to present those values to the rest of the world. It would be wrong for us to remain as isolationists and say that although the outside world is interesting, we will not participate in it because we have enough work to do here. We do have enough work to do here, but we should make our contribution nonetheless and share with the rest of the world our experiences in building peace and democracy. If we take that approach, we will make a solid contribution to the deliberations of the CPA. Some see the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association as some sort of old imperialist organisation. It is not: it is a multinational organisation comprising parliamentarians from all parts of the world. It is important that parliamentarians mix together and learn from one another. We should remember that. Mr Donaldson: In the light of what the Member for North Belfast has said, would he and his party welcome an application from the Republic of Ireland to join the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association? Mr A Maginness: I would welcome the deepening of Members’ relationships — and not just the nationalist Members, but the unionists as well — with the Members of Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann, who share this island as parliamentarians. Mr Speaker: Your time is up. Mr A Maginness: Mr Speaker, I thought that we had a bond; obviously, we do not. Mr Neeson: Like those Members who have already spoken, I congratulate you on your elevation, Mr Speaker. I am delighted that, for once, we have our full quota on the Floor. I support the motion. The Assembly was previously a member of the CPA, and it was a successful experience. It is useful to work with democracies throughout the world. Many issues are now dealt with on a global basis, and it is important to remember that not only Members but the Assembly’s staff would benefit from membership of the CPA. I welcome the fact that the CPA is meeting in Belfast this week, and I will certainly attend that conference. Mr Donaldson rather pre-empted what I was going to suggest. In the present political climate in Northern Ireland and the British Isles, and with improved Anglo-Irish relations, it is time for the Government of the Republic of Ireland to consider joining the CPA in order that they can interact with the other major nations throughout the world. I support the motion. Mr Wells: I had the privilege, along with Dr Coulter and Mr Maginness, of being a member of the CPA during the Northern Ireland Assembly’s first mandate. The Northern Ireland branch of the CPA was extremely active. I am sure that all Members are proud of our Commonwealth background. I am sure that they are all proud that Northern Ireland was once part of the empire. We are all bound by our links to Her Majesty The Queen and the English language. This is not just semantics. We are dealing with being part of an organisation that represents two billion citizens. Two billion people live in the Commonwealth, and that opens up vast economic development opportunities for Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. Therefore, Members should not scoff at the CPA. As Dr Coulter said, the membership of the CPA includes 169 legislatures, ranging from state parliaments to small municipal authorities. The CPA is a huge organisation that could give so much to the people of Northern Ireland. As we speak, a subgroup of the CPA — the British islands and Mediterranean region — is meeting in the Stormont Hotel. It is wonderful that we have been able to link that visit to Northern Ireland with the Assembly’s application for readmission to the CPA. I must emphasise that this is an application for readmission. Between them, the Northern Ireland Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly have been members of the CPA on and off for decades. However, the collapse of devolution meant that the Assembly’s membership lapsed. In 2001, with Rev Coulter and the then Speaker Lord Alderdice, I had the privilege of reapplying for membership. The CPA unanimously agreed that application. Therefore, it is appropriate that the Assembly reapplies once more while the CPA is having its conference in Northern Ireland. Membership of the CPA offers a marvellous opportunity to meet with those in Governments in countries linked by their English language and heritage, ranging in size from India, with 1·1 billion people, to Montserrat, with a population of only a few thousand. Membership also offers the Assembly wonderful opportunities to learn from those Governments and legislatures, and, perhaps, for the Assembly to give advice and assistance to emerging democracies. The CPA is linked to the Commonwealth Association. A clear rule of the Commonwealth Association is that any member Government that does not meet normal democratic standards, such as Zimbabwe recently, and Pakistan more latterly, is removed, with its membership suspended until democracy is restored. A set of standards< is applied. The CPA applies similar rules. A country’s membership is suspended if the country concerned does not adhere to normal democratic standards. Northern Ireland could benefit enormously from membership of the CPA. Mr Dallat, a Member for East Londonderry, attended one of its conferences in 2002 and made an important input. I am very enthusiastic about the CPA. The Northern Ireland Assembly should play a full part in it, and all Members should attend and support the meetings of this very important association. Mr Donaldson: Mr Speaker, I add to the words of other Members and congratulate you on taking up the office of Speaker of the Assembly. I trust that you will enjoy your term of office. 12.30 pm The hon Member for North Antrim the Rev Dr Robert Coulter has already mentioned that the members of the British islands and Mediterranean branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association are holding their conference this week in Northern Ireland for the first time. I bid them a very warm welcome. I know that you, Mr Speaker, will be attending the formal opening of the conference. Members have already highlighted some of the work of the CPA; I want to mention other aspects of its role. One relates to conflicts around the world. The CPA works in partnership with the international community and with individual Parliaments and their Members to apply the expertise of Commonwealth parliamentarians to the task of managing conflicts. On that issue, we in Northern Ireland have something to give back to the international community, from which we have received support and encouragement over the years — and sometimes interference, as the First Minister suggested in his speech at the opening ceremony here last week. Nevertheless, we have the opportunity to contribute to conflict management in the Commonwealth. The range of the CPA’s programmes reflects its commitment to human rights and the widest possible democratic participation in governance. I echo the Member for East Antrim Mr Neeson in saying that it would be good to see the Irish Republic joining the Commonwealth of Nations. There is a place for the Republic there, and I hope that in this new environment we will see it coming forward and joining the Common-wealth, bringing the Irish Parliament into the CPA so that it too can make a contribution in that forum. In 1996, the CPA became one of the sponsor organisations of the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, collaborating closely in order to further the Commonwealth’s human rights and democracy agenda. The CPA works with the World Trade Organization, the Inter-Parliamentary Union, the European Parliament and the parliamentary network of the World Bank to raise awareness of international trade issues. Although Parliaments and parliamentarians have long been asked to support their Governments’ trade policies and to enact legislation implementing the results of trade negotiations, until recently, MPs and MLAs had virtually no involvement in, or knowledge of, the international trading system that determines the future of their communities. That began to change in 2003, largely through the work of the CPA. The CPA is also involved with the tragic impact of HIV/AIDS, particularly in Africa. The CPA works with the international community and parliamentarians, analysing the impact of HIV/AIDS to determine what Parliaments can do to alleviate its effects. Members of the CPA have regularly discussed the issue with experts at Commonwealth parliamentary conferences since 2000, and the CPA has convened a study group on the role of parliamentarians in combating the HIV/AIDS pandemic. It has also sent parliamentarians to inter-parliamentary workshops in Pakistan and South Africa to discuss ways to strengthen Parliaments’ role in combating issues related to HIV/AIDS. A survey of Commonwealth Parliaments is under way to establish what parliamentary activities have been undertaken and what legislation has been passed to deal with the disease. It is appropriate that on this day, when Northern Ireland hosts a CPA conference for the first time, we as an Assembly should reapply for membership of the CPA. It will help the Assembly to take on a role in the wider international community and allow us to give something of our collective talents towards international development and co-operation. I support the motion. Mr Kennedy: Mr Speaker, I join with other Members and extend my warm congratulations to you on your election as Speaker. I look forward to a happy relationship with you, and I wish you all the very best. I am heartened by the level of agreement on this motion. As the Assembly establishes, or re-establishes, its membership of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, it is appropriate to remind Members that the association’s overall aims are to: “promote knowledge of the constitutional, legislative, economic, social and cultural aspects of parliamentary democracy, with particular reference to the countries of the Commonwealth of Nations.” Those are laudable aims, and Members should be very happy to be associated with them. I have taken great comfort from the level of agreement among the Members who have spoken. I pay particular tribute to my colleague, Rev Robert Coulter, who moved the motion, not only for his background knowledge of the issue, but for his ongoing and long-standing commitment to the work of the CPA. That commitment has been widely known and is now widely respected. Currently, 169 Parliaments, Assemblies and legislatures are associated in some shape or form with the CPA, and, as Members of the Assembly, we want to play a more active part in that organisation. I also welcome the remarks of the First Minister. As well as wishing good health to himself and Her Majesty The Queen, in what might be called the over-80s’ club, I had rather hoped that he would extend wishes of good health to all Members of the Assembly. However, I am sure that that is the case. I was interested in the contribution made by the representative from Sinn Féin, Mitchel McLaughlin, who accepted that Members of the Assembly are genuinely interested in the CPA and see benefit for all from renewing the Assembly’s membership. It was a helpful contribution, as was that of Alban Maginness. In the past, members of the SDLP have been very active in attending meetings and conferences organised by the CPA. Mr Maginness made the important point that membership of the CPA should not be an opportunity, or should not be seen to be an opportunity, for Members to indulge in junkets. That is not the intention. There is important business to be transacted, including the exchange of information and ideas among parliamentarians. Indeed, membership gives the staff of the Parliaments and Assemblies the opportunity to engage with, and learn from, one another. Under no circumstances should it be seen simply as an opportunity to get additional stamps on one’s passport. I also welcome Mr Neeson’s contribution. He made the good point that politics is happening increasingly on a local basis. It will assist all of us greatly if the Assembly re-engages with the CPA. I pay tribute to Jim Wells for his contribution to the work of the CPA during the Assembly’s first mandate. He was always very enthusiastic, and one hopes that he will be given the opportunity to re-engage in the work of CPA. However, at the moment, he may be under a cloud in some quarters, and there might be punishment involved that might not allow that to happen immediately. Jim, hopefully, it will happen soon. [Laughter.] I echo the comments of Members — Mr Speaker: The Member’s time is up. Mr Kennedy: Thank you very much for your indulgence, Mr Speaker. Mr Moutray: Mr Speaker, I join other Members in congratulating you on your elevation to your post. I look forward to working with you in your capacity as Chairperson of the Assembly Commission. I welcome the opportunity to debate the possibility of the Assembly’s rejoining the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, the work of which is varied. Through participation in Commonwealth Parliamentary Association programmes, parliamentarians are able to champion socio-economic reforms and promote good governance, not only in their own jurisdictions but in the international community. Parliamentarians can contribute to shaping poverty-reduction strategy papers that can be implemented in poorer Commonwealth — and other — nations through the World Bank Institute and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Those parliamentarians can improve the conservation of scarce Government financial resources through advances in parliamentary scrutiny and public spending, and they can implement and reinforce effective measures to curb corruption so that valuable resources go to where they are most needed — the poorest in all societies. (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Molloy] in the Chair) CPA programmes link parliamentarians with poverty-reduction strategy papers through the World Bank Institute. Workshops on public spending and poverty reduction have been held in west Africa, with funding from the United Kingdom’s Department for International Development. In partnership with the World Bank Institute, national workshops in Cameroon, Sierra Leone, Ghana and Nigeria were followed by a regional workshop to strengthen participating Parliaments’ capacities to deal with poverty issues. Poverty reduction is now commonly part of CPA post-election seminars. Newly elected members can learn directly from experienced parliamentarians and World Bank Institute officials about what their countries are doing to reduce poverty and about how they can participate in that process. Commonwealth members have debated poverty-related issues such as: achieving the millennium development goals of the United Nations; eradicating extreme poverty and hunger; how Parliaments and civil society can work together to achieve poverty reduction; and the link between poverty and human security. CPA programmes have ensured that scrutiny of public spending has now been recognised as playing a crucial and practical role in the fight against poverty. Members, Governments, international aid donors and global financial agencies now acknowledge that better parliamentary oversight leads to better policy formulation and programme delivery. The CPA has focused parliamentary and international attention on the vital role of public accounts committees in strengthening Parliaments’ scrutiny functions. In discussions with the experts in the field, members have learned more about scrutiny techniques, including the presentation of budgets and their processes through Parliaments, and the role and status of poverty-reduction policies and their impact on the budgetary process. Various matters of importance for increasing efficiency in oversight and financial scrutiny have been highlighted. Those include adequate resourcing for oversight institutions, collaboration with departmental parlia-mentary committees, the relationship between public accounts committees and auditors general, and the opening of committee meetings to the public media. The CPA and World Bank Institute are developing a programme to ensure that all parliamentary committees are equipped to deliver effective financial oversight of Executives. Allied to its work on the oversight of public spending is the CPA’s programme to help parliamentarians — and, through them, their Governments — to develop effective ways to curb corruption and to ensure that civil services have a culture of providing efficient and ethical governmental services. It is for those and many other reasons that we should support the Assembly’s rejoining the CPA. Rev Dr Robert Coulter: It is encouraging to hear support from all sides of the House for the motion, and I welcome the understanding that there will be no opposition to it. I thank all Members who have spoken in support of the motion. I ask that the relevant bodies expedite this matter so that the Assembly can rejoin a great and distinguished body as soon as possible. Question put and agreed to. Resolved: That this Assembly agrees to re-apply for admission to membership of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, such membership to be effective immediately on approval of the application by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, and to abide by the provisions of the constitution of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association; that the required membership fee be paid to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association; and that this motion be communicated to the secretariat of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association immediately following agreement. Mr Deputy Speaker: The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for this debate, the Member proposing the motion having a maximum of 10 minutes to propose and a further 10 minutes for the winding-up speech. All other Members who wish to speak will have five minutes. One amendment has been published on the Marshalled List. The Member proposing the amendment will have 10 minutes in which to do so and five minutes for the winding-up speech. 12.45 pm I remind Members of the procedures and protocol regarding maiden contributions, as Ms McCann is about to make her maiden speech. Ms J McCann: I beg to move That this Assembly expresses serious concerns about the under-representation of women in the Assembly and calls on all parties to commit themselves to addressing the situation; and for the establishment of an all-party working group to discuss these and other issues that have a negative impact on women; and further calls on an incoming Executive to fully implement and resource a comprehensive strategy to tackle the under-representation of women in political life. Ba mhaith liom an rún a mholadh. I welcome the opportunity to take part in this important debate on the under-representation of women in the Assembly. In Ireland today, women are still not fully represented in either national politics or in local government decision-making structures. Men continue to dominate all our cultural, social, economic, legal and political institutions. The following statistics graphically illustrate that inequality. In Ireland as a whole, women make up 51% of the population, yet in the North of Ireland only 16·7% of MLAs and 21·3% of local councillors are women. In the South of Ireland only 13% of TDs and only 15% of elected councillors are women. In this Chamber, only 18 out of 108 MLAs are women — all of whom have been elected because of their abilities and their contributions to political life. The statistics show that women are seriously under-represented at all levels in the decision-making process. Such under-representation does not happen by accident but is caused by inequalities of power, which are deepened by other factors such as poverty, educational disadvantage, lack of access to housing and appropriate healthcare, violence, rural isolation, inaccessibility for people with disabilities, racism and ageism. It will take political vision and will to change that, but it can be done. The primary benchmark in relation to women’s engagement with, and representation in, politics is the United Nations’ Fourth World Conference on Women, which took place in 1995 in Beijing. That conference identified two key strategic objectives: to ensure women’s equal access to, and full participation in, power structures and decision-making; and to increase women’s capacity to participate in decision-making and leadership. It also proposed actions to be taken by Governments, political parties, all other concerned parties and the United Nations itself to facilitate those objectives. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that: “Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country”. The Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women also seeks to progress women’s rights in respect of politics. However, women are still largely under-represented at all levels of government. Furthermore, they have made little progress in attaining political power in legislative bodies. All political parties have a responsibility to ensure that more women are elected to the Assembly and other political institutions. Political parties can and should adapt strategies to increase the number of successful women candidates by using positive action in their recruitment and selection processes to ensure that we are all working towards achieving 50:50 parity. The playing field is not even at the moment, and we should not pretend that it is. Political parties can engage with women’s organisations that work at encouraging and supporting women to enable them to become more involved in political life. However, there is real need for an all-party group to examine all the issues that lead to under-representation. All of us in this Chamber can reflect on at least one woman who has had a positive role in shaping and directing our future. Our mothers, sisters, wives, partners and daughters have at some stage contributed towards making us into the people we are, yet despite all the strategies and policies adopted by Government to promote gender equality, extensive discrimination against women in all areas of life still exists. Women bring a great contribution to the development of society. It is incumbent on all agencies to ensure that all possible mechanisms for advancing gender equality are used rigorously. The under-representation of women in politics and public life has a negative impact on politics and on society as a whole. Women constitute a diverse group with many talents, life experiences and positive attributes to bring to the world of politics. Equality and human rights are at the core of the Good Friday Agreement, and we must ensure that equality for women is a priority. An Ireland of equals can be achieved only in the context of full equality for women. The female MLAs in this Chamber can be positive role models for women to become involved in politics, but it is not their responsibility alone. Everyone in the Chamber has a responsibility to ensure that the barriers to women’s participation in all aspects of political life are removed. Gender discrimination and equality for women are issues of concern for us all. Therefore, I call on the Assembly to support the motion. Mr Deputy Speaker: I have received one amendment to the motion — Ms Ní Chuilín: Le do thoil, a LeasCheann Comhairle. On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. If the gender equality strategy has indeed been adopted by the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM), it will cut across all the Departments and the Executive. However, if it has not been adopted, is the amendment competent? Mr Deputy Speaker: We do not have any advice from OFMDFM. That will be sought, but at this stage I am advised that the Speaker has accepted the amendment as being a competent amendment. I remind Members that this is Miss McIlveen’s maiden speech, and that therefore it should be heard uninterrupted. Mr McNarry: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In the light of what you have just said, is it your intention that, if a vote should be taken, the information that the Speaker requires as to the amendment’s competence will be relevant to the vote? On this side of the House we should like to hear from Miss McIlveen, and it is a relevant amendment, but if uncertainty exists as to its competence, is it fair to put the House through the strain of hearing it? Is it not possible to give advice now as to the relevance of the amendment? Mr Deputy Speaker: The Speaker is satisfied that the amendment is competent, and we will continue with the debate. Miss McIlveen: I beg to move the following amendment: Leave out all after “situation” and insert “; recognises the commitment of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to implementing the Gender Equality Strategy; and believes that individuals should obtain positions on merit, otherwise the argument for greater representation from women can be diminished.” In order that the Assembly can truly represent the views of Northern Ireland’s electorate, it should be reflective of the demographics of that electorate. That is a truism. Sadly, however, only 16·7% of the Members of the Assembly are women. If this were an accurate refection of the electorate, the human race would be approaching extinction. I welcome this debate. Like many others in the Chamber, I am concerned about the under-representation of women, not only in the Assembly but in each stratum of political life, and this is an opportunity to express those concerns. The motion proposes the establishment of an all-party working group to discuss the under-representation of women in this Assembly, along with other issues that have a negative impact on women. That is duplication rather than additionality. Such issues are within the remit of the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister through the gender equality strategy. Indeed, four Members of this Chamber spoke at a conference in November 2006 at Hillsborough Castle, organised by the Secretary of State and the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, that specifically addressed the issues faced by women and the problems in the political system in Northern Ireland. We still await the report pertaining to that conference. What more would the establishment of a working group hope to achieve? If it is the hope that a quota system be imposed on the parties, I find such a proposal an insult to my gender. As a female representative, I feel that the honour of being selected by my party to stand, and my subsequent election to this Assembly by the Strangford electorate, would be tarnished if that selection were the result of an enforced quota system and not on merit. I wish to be judged on my abilities and not on my gender. Over the past two years, I have been actively involved in the Women in Local Councils initiative, which has placed the issue on the agenda, and I have been encouraged by the progress that has been made. As a woman, I am conscious of the difficulties that can be faced. That said, however, those same difficulties are faced by many of my male colleagues. We need a working environment that encourages new people to enter local government and retains them once they have been elected. It is from local government that future MLAs can be cultivated. The current working environment is too inflexible; it needs to be able to accommodate a life outside of it. The traditional role of the woman as the sole carer for the family while the man is at work has long since gone. Those responsibilities are now shared. We do not assist the cause of converting more women to the idea of running for civic office by continually concentrating on negatives, particularly when those negatives, such as conflict with work and time away from the family, are the same for men as they are for women. There has been much talk of the problem of getting women selected, of old-fashioned attitudes and of the need for mentoring and capacity-building. However, the primary problem is that women do not seek elected office; it is overthrowing that obstacle that is most important. Society is now willing to accept and elect female politicians, if only more could be encouraged to appear on the ballot paper. Forcing them onto the ballot paper is not the answer. Parties need to look within to address any lingering prejudices that may persist. The DUP has a growing female representation, and we are proud of the achievements in our party. Our challenge is to highlight the talents of candidates, irrespective of gender, and promote on the basis of merit. Furthermore, parties must assist with fluidity of movement throughout their ranks by implementing the correct supportive measures. For those reasons, I ask the House to support the amendment. Mr Deputy Speaker: I call Mr Basil McCrea. I remind Members that this is Mr McCrea’s maiden speech and should therefore be heard without interruption. Mr B McCrea: I am grateful for this opportunity to address the House. I listened with some interest to Miss McIlveen’s speech, and I concur with much of what she said. The real issue is one of equality of opportunity, but selection on merit. There is no doubt that this is an issue for all Members. The Ulster Unionist Party, in common with many other parties, has sought ways of dealing with the issue. One need only look at what Mr Cameron has tried to achieve with his A-list. Apparently, he has managed to identify the key criteria that make up ideal political candidates of either gender. Perhaps something that we ought to consider for future reference is that all political representatives should go through that kind of test. Of course, even though Mr Cameron has been successful in getting women selected in 43 out of his 107 most winnable seats, it has not been without its difficulties. The Labour Party also tried to deal with this issue. It has had all-women lists, twinning of constituencies and zipping, yet its disappointment at the Blaenau Gwent by-election result shows that the public do not take kindly to having candidates foisted upon them. Returning to the local situation — and there was the sad demise of the Northern Ireland Women’s Coalition — research was carried out on this issue, and some notable statistics emerged. 1.00 pm First of all, 70% of men and women do not care about the gender of the person who represents them. Secondly — and this point was touched on earlier — 70% of people thought that women either chose not to put themselves forward or chose to put their family before a career in politics. In other words, we are talking about female choice. We have a challenge: we have to encourage a greater number of qualified women to come into politics. I want to pick up on a point that my colleague made earlier. It is a little strange that other parties whose members have already contributed to the debate have actually deselected sitting female MLAs and replaced them with men. Some Members: Who? Mr B McCrea: This issue is one for everybody, and we do not intend to duck it — and to answer the MLAs who are interrupting, Norah Beare MLA was deselected and replaced by an all-male constituency slate, and in Newry and Armagh, Pat O’Rawe was deselected and replaced by a man. If we get to a situation — [Interruption.] Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Let the Member speak. I remind Members that this speech should not be interrupted. Mr B McCrea: We want to attract more women into politics, but we have to consider the political system that is in place. Under the system, we have seen vote management and a very impressive display in West Belfast. It does not matter who is selected, because the vote is a vote for the party. It is therefore difficult to understand why the gender of candidates is important. The Ulster Unionist Party believes in selecting people in a less draconian way than other parties present in the Chamber. [Interruption.] Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. I remind Members that Mr McCrea is making his maiden speech. As such, it should be uninterrupted, yet we have had several interruptions. Mr B McCrea: We have to encourage more people to take an interest in politics. That will be a challenge, because 50% of people out there have no interest in politics, and the other 50% believe that they were conned over the past four or five weeks. People in this Chamber were elected on a manifesto that they are not now keeping to. If we want to encourage women into politics, we have to show them that politics actually works. Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Your time is up, Mr McCrea. Mrs D Kelly: It appears that the Member for Lagan Valley touched something of a raw nerve among Members on the DUP Benches. I have been in local politics for the past 14 years, and it has not been easy. It has involved many sacrifices. I am sure that some of our male colleagues will have made sacrifices too, but the fact remains that women continue to bear the brunt of family responsibilities — caring for children and for others who depend on us for their healthcare and social care. Mr McCrea spoke about the electorate, and the proposer of the motion pointed out that 51% of the population of the island of Ireland is female. Mr McCrea suggested that people would vote for whomever they wanted to. However, the electorate is increasingly disengaged from democracy. Why is that? Well, when people look at their political role models, they see far too many men. Positive action is required to bring women into politics, because there are not enough opportunities or support mechanisms for them. In Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and right across Europe, we have seen that positive action works. The SDLP does not support the amendment. For several years, we have adopted a policy of affirmative action and have put forward more female candidates in previous Assembly elections than any other party. Women make up over 40% of our representation at local council level and in SDLP party structures. What is the case for gender equality? An increase in the number of women elected to the Assembly would lead to a higher quality of decision-making, reflecting the greater diversity of experience of those making decisions. Evidence from the newly devolved institutions in Scotland and Wales highlights that a relatively high number of people have had a discernable impact on shaping their policy agendas. We should be mindful of that point, particularly today, when it has been revealed that 100,000 children in Northern Ireland are living in poverty. That represents a huge challenge to us all. That is one good reason why more women should be engaged in local politics. Representation plays a greatly symbolic role. It is important for decision-makers to be effective role models and to be truly representative of their electors. Women make up 51% of the electorate. There are far too few women in this Chamber, and too few parties are taking the matter seriously. The SDLP supports the motion. Mrs Long: It is a sad state of affairs when the only maidens on the Ulster Unionist Benches are their maiden speakers. That is something that the party should consider — that we have better representation. Mr Kennedy: Would you like to join? Mrs Long: I shall decline that kind invitation. [Laughter.] Mr Kennedy: You lot have changed parties before. Mrs Long: The Ulster Unionist Party tends to shed, rather than gain, Members during any Assembly term. If any of that party’s members would like to come in our direction and join a party with better representation, we would certainly welcome them. Democracy is best served when the elected cohort reflects wider society. I do not believe that the current cohort does that in respect of gender representation or in respect of people with disabilities, people from ethnic minority backgrounds, young people and, indeed, many other groups in society who look at this Chamber and do not see anyone who reflects their individual interests and concerns. The Member for Strangford said that if the Assembly were an accurate reflection of society, society would become extinct. Dare I suggest that there are people outside the Chamber who would say that, if that were the case, it would not be a bad thing? I am disappointed with the motion in that it is very narrow and considers only the issue of gender, whereas representational democracy needs to look at a much broader range of subject matters. The amendment is also extremely narrow, which I will talk about later. Most people agree that there is a need to have a more representative democracy. However, the debate will centre not on the wording of the motion — which I am quite comfortable with — but the wording of the speeches that have taken the debate a step further. We have now entered the realms of saying that, rather than needing to investigate whether barriers exist to women entering politics, we accept that those barriers do exist and that the way to get around them is so-called positive discrimination. I do not believe that discrimination can ever be positive; if someone is promoted for the wrong reasons, it will always have a negative effect on someone else. Discrimination is therefore always negative. In that sense, the amendment is very strong on the fundamental principle of merit — that people should be promoted on the basis of ability and nothing else. However, the amendment stops short and cuts across the original motion at the wrong point by eliminating any sense of responsibility for taking forward the work to create a level playing field. It is that aspect of the amendment that makes me uncomfortable. Many things that stop well short of engineering equality of outcome can, and should, be done to create equality of opportunity. That is where attention should be focused. I have some issues with regard to the speeches so far. I agree with the proposer of the amendment about the language that is used and the gender stereotyping. For example, at meetings where getting women more involved in politics is discussed, much of the time is spent talking about childcare responsibilities. Although that is not an issue for me, as I am not a parent, it is for many women, and it is a huge issue for some of my male colleagues, who are parents. Therefore, in our language and in how we address such issues, we must base our examination of the barriers to people’s participation in politics on the issue rather than on a presumption that is based on a gender-biased approach. Furthermore, we should examine societal change, and I do not agree that, at the moment, parents share full responsibility for their children or for wider caring responsibilities in the family. That is where we should be heading; however, we are not there yet, so those societal issues must be addressed. Parties should also examine such matters as succession planning. Many of the people in this Chamber have been here for a long time. Change through those parties is more difficult to see, because there is no natural turnover. My sympathy lies with the amendment, but I cannot support it for the following reason. The last sentence says that: “the argument for greater representation from women can be diminished.” I do not believe that that is true. The argument for better representation of women is a democratic imperative. The credibility of female Members can be undermined as a result of discrimination, as can the democratic process. I should prefer to see a move away from politics based on patronage, financial status, class and gender bias; however, I do not believe that simply by reversing the direction of discrimination we will achieve that end. Mr Weir: I support the amendment, and I am glad that the motion has been brought to the Assembly. Contributions to the debate have, so far, been good, although the Ulster Unionist Party was, as far as I am aware, the only party in the Chamber to reduce the number of female candidates in the last election to the Assembly. The words “kettle” and “pot” come to mind, therefore, when the hon Member for Lagan Valley from that party decides to lecture the rest of us on the issue of encouraging more female representation. As someone who, through the Northern Ireland Local Government Association (NILGA) and the Women in Local Councils initiative, has been involved in the issue for some time, I welcome this debate. It should not be pigeon-holed as “female Members of the Assembly”. It affects all of us, whether at council or Assembly level. If we do not have a system, and if we are not fully representative of the community as a whole, we do not harness the full talents of that community. Consequently, the ability and the opportunity, at Assembly or council level, to ensure that we have the best possible solutions to problems are diminished. A joint survey by NILGA and the National Association of Councillors (NAC) was carried out in 2005 at local council level. It indicated that female representation in Northern Ireland, although lower than in England, was similar to that in Scotland and in Wales. It was said earlier that 21% of our councillors are female. Although the figure for those returning to local government who had previously been councillors was around 17%, one encouraging statistic from that survey was that the figure for new councillors in Northern Ireland was approximately 30% to 31%. Although that does not reach equality, it does show that things are at least moving in the right direction. However, we must be on our guard to ensure that women, particularly those who were brought in at the last election, are encouraged to remain in the system. In the brief time remaining, I wish to address two matters, one in relation to the motion and the other to the amendment. In encouraging women into either local government or the Assembly, as was indicated by the proposer of the amendment, quota systems will be detrimental if women are not selected solely on merit. That may prove to be successful in obtaining some seats for women, but if those women are selected, and are seen to be selected, only to reach a party quota, what kind of message does that send out? 1.15 pm Tokenism will cause more harm to the furthering of women’s careers, and their selection should be purely on merit. As has been mentioned before, the Labour Party got a lot of PR out of the “Blair babes” in 1997, but, 10 years on, the number of female MPs in the Labour Party is fewer than it was in 1997. Many of those women were brought in, and were seen to be being brought in, on an unequal basis. Consequently, that diminished their opportunity for authority. Mention has also been mention made of the all-party group. As someone who has been involved with women in local councils, I have seen various organisations, such as Women Into Politics and the Northern Ireland Rural Women’s Network, all of which do a very good job. However, we must move away from the idea that if we need to do something about an issue, we need to form a committee. Instead, we need action and practical measures. Encouraging women into politics is more about delivering than constantly forming strategies. Mrs D Kelly: Will the Member give way? Mr Weir: Unfortunately, I will have to decline that kind offer as I have only five minutes. The Member who spoke previously mentioned the need to look at childcare facilities, for example, but that is not the be-all and end-all. Sometimes, particularly with female representation, people tend to look at the matter as at one stereotype, as has been previously indicated. We have to cater for the fact that if we are to encourage as many women into politics as possible — indeed, encourage many people into politics — we have to have flexibility to cover everyone’s personal circumstances. Therefore, for example, simply adopting family-friendly hours may create a situation in which those involved in a career opportunity — and this is particularly true at council level — find themselves excluded from joining councils. We have to ensure flexibility so that all are covered. The priority has to be assisting entry — not legislating quota systems to make the numbers look good. We have to look beyond a candidate’s gender and get to the root of the problem of how we can put in place a strategy that encourages women. We should not be distracting ourselves with quotas; rather we should be highlighting the potential needs of everyone. I support the amendment. Mr O’Dowd: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Before I address the amendment to the motion I would take this opportunity to congratulate you on your elevation to the post of Deputy Speaker on this your first Assembly sitting as Deputy Speaker. I am speaking in favour of the motion and against the amendment, because the latter does not go far enough. It negates the original proposal in that it stops a working group being formed. That is what is important about this. We can have this one-hour debate today, and we can present anecdotal evidence and studies before us. We can go away saying that we had a debate around women in politics and that we have passed a party strategy that will come through the Executive. We can say that we are not sure when it will coming but that it is there. The responsibility to ensure that women can get into politics on a fair and equitable basis rests with each and every one of us. That is what the working group should be about. The working group should go away, study the issues and look at all the various opinions in this Chamber. Sinn Féin has its own views on how to move forward on the matter, as do the Alliance Party, the DUP and the Ulster Unionists, apparently. Those views should go to the working group, and we should return to the Chamber and debate reports on the way forward that emerge from that group. If we neglect 51% of the population on the island of Ireland, in terms of political representation, we will have failed. We can go no further. We have spent many years trying to ensure that we enter a parliamentary body here that is as representative of the people as possible. We now have to ensure that it is as representative as possible of both the genders on the island of Ireland. My mother often told me after I was elected that it was she who drummed my social conscience into me — and she was right. She often reminded me that her generation did not have a chance to have a voice. She was correct in that. We have to ensure that this generation of women has a voice. People should not be standing up on their behalf, but women should be speaking in the Chamber not only about women’s issues but on all the complex issues that will be raised in the Assembly in the weeks and months ahead. Why do women not seek elected office? Is it because they do not want to be politicians, because they do not have ideas, or because they do not have thoughts and principles on the way in which society should be formed? Of course they do. However, we cannot stand over a statement that says that women do not seek elected office, and then move away from that statement; nor can we say that quota systems do not work because women do not seek elected office. Sinn Féin’s view of the quota system is that every women on the list is there through merit and not because they are women. Sinn Féin ensures that those women are then placed in winnable seats. The SDLP makes much of the fact that it had more women candidates in the last election than any other party. The vast majority of those women stood in constituencies where there was no chance of their being elected. There must be a responsibility to ensure that women are placed in constituencies where they will be elected and eventually end up in the Chamber to make a contribution. I am not making a case for dismissing the amendment because it does not come from Sinn Féin or because it comes from the DUP. The amendment has fundamental flaws. It would cut out a working group, and the gender equality strategy does not particularly refer to women in politics. The motion proposes that we ensure that we get women into politics. The gender equality strategy covers a much wider remit and has its own place, but it is not specific to the issue. Therefore, I support the motion and oppose the amendment. Mr Beggs: I support the amendment. The principle of equality of opportunity must be maintained, and Members must be appointed on merit. The Ulster Unionist Party does not want quotas. I was disappointed at the number of female Assembly candidates put forward for election and the number that have been elected. The Ulster Unionist Party is already addressing that issue by carrying out a major review. Several Members have had a go at the Ulster Unionist Party and its all-male Benches. The Ulster Unionist Party could easily have had a female Assembly Member if its MP for North Down had stood, and I have no doubt that she would have been elected. However, would that have been good for her constituents? She cannot be in Westminster and in the Assembly at the same time, and I respect her decision not to stand. I hope that people will appreciate that and stop using that fact as an opportunity to have a whack at the Ulster Unionist Party. The Assembly must be more gender-representative of the community. I will give Members an example of an area in which males, for some reason, have not become involved, which can be easily overlooked. In my constituency, I am involved in children’s and young people’s issues. I am involved in a Sure Start scheme in the Carrickfergus and Larne area, and frequently I am the only male member attending committee meetings, as males overlook those issues. Females are more aware of those important issues and could bring them to the Assembly at a higher level than males. That is just one example. What can be done? Individual parties must address the issue. Some female candidates have been reluctant to put themselves forward for election, and all parties must address that issue. Parties should provide training and support, and encourage more women to put themselves forward for election to councils, the Assembly, Westminster and the European Parliament. I agree that quotas are not the way forward and would be demeaning to women, and many women political activists to whom I have spoken agree with that viewpoint. I agree with other Members that the next local government election should be seen as the most likely launching pad for many new female careers. Undoubtedly, local government is the level at which new people can become involved more easily, and if, in two years’ time, there are many more successful female candidates, I have no doubt that in the two years after that, the make-up of the Assembly will change. To have more female candidates at council, Assembly or whatever level should be a target for all those involved in politics. Mr K Robinson: Does the Member agree that the Ulster Unionist group on Newtownabbey Borough Council is an example to follow? The majority of UUP members on the last council were female, including the leader and, in 2000, the mayor. On the current council there is 50:50 gender representation in that group, with the chief whip and the leader both being female. Surely that is an example for all to follow. Mr Beggs: I agree. That is a very good example that should be replicated throughout Northern Ireland. To return to the issue of double-jobbing, which is a big issue affecting gender balance, there are 18 Northern Ireland MPs, of which 15 are male and three are female, including one female who has decided not to stand again. What happens when an MP stands for a local council or for the Assembly? One can weigh the votes. Double- and treble-jobbing is one of the greatest issues creating gender imbalance in the Assembly and at local government level. Mr Weir: Will the Member give way? Mr Beggs: I need to continue, as I am nearly out of time. It is important that the issue of double-jobbing be addressed so that constituents can be properly represented in the Assembly and at Westminster. It is impossible for one person to properly represent several bodies at once. If we are serious about the problem of the under-representation of women in politics, the practical issue of double- and treble-jobbing provides one way to address the problem. I see that some Members are touchy about that issue. What happens when a male Member of Parliament stands for the Assembly with an all-male team? Often, three or four of that team will be elected. A debate on the mechanisms that allow MPs to stand for multiple bodies could improve the gender balance by leading to the creation of vacancies. Ms Purvis: As the only female party leader in the UK, and perhaps the British Isles, I support the motion over the amendment. Members have spoken about equality of opportunity, against the issue of quotas and in favour of the merit principle — I would like to see equality of outcomes. In the community that I come from, women are still the main carers; they still have responsibility for looking after children or elderly relatives who may be ill, along with children or other relatives who may have severe learning disabilities. In my community, women still have the main responsibility for domestic chores — looking after the house, cleaning, washing and cooking. They still earn less than men: it was recently reported that, on average, women earn 80% of a man’s weekly wage. We have not even achieved equality of opportunity, never mind outcome. Certain Members have talked about the “presumption” that women are still the main carers. It is not a presumption but a fact that women are still the main carers right across the board. It is a fact that they still have responsibility for housekeeping, and it is a fact that they still earn less than men. Even though women make up more than 51% of the population, we do not have 51% representation in this Assembly. In fact, I do not believe that we have 51% representation in any of the Houses across the United Kingdom. I do not particularly agree with quotas, but they could be useful where there is reluctance to examine the barriers that are faced by women. The use of quotas could be an important measure to make people look at the structural difficulties that women face. The introduction of quotas may come about. They could always be revised once equal representation has been achieved. I would like to see this Assembly endorsing politics as a real career choice for women, because currently it is not. In my community, women would run a mile in the opposite direction at the mention of politics as a career. That is because they face many barriers when it comes to having a career in politics. They face emotional and practical barriers. I am a great believer in the idea that if the practical barriers are sorted out, the emotional barriers that prevent women from taking their rightful place in the politics of this country will also be removed. 1.30 pm Lack of confidence is one emotional barrier that women face. Moreover, their role as children’s main carers means that they feel guilty about leaving their children in order to go to work. That happens not only in politics but across the board. However, if we remove the practical barriers that women face daily, those emotional barriers can be overcome. The House has gone a long way to dealing with the practical barriers that women face in becoming involved in politics. The Assembly holds its plenary sittings and Committee meetings during the day, not at night. It provides childcare facilities and ensures that women can afford childcare that is of a proper quality. That provision helps to ease the emotional barriers that women encounter when they have to leave children or elderly dependants in order to attend meetings. Mr Weir mentioned the “Blair babes”. He said that for the Labour Party to get so many women elected in 1997 had been a great achievement, but he went on to ask where they are now. Where are they now? They are no longer in Parliament because the structures necessary to support them did not change. It was great, then, to get women into Parliament at Westminster, but no support mechanisms were set up to ensure that they remained there. The Assembly has support mechanisms in place to ensure that women stay here. We must do more, however, and that is why I support the motion. The Assembly should support projects that encourage women to follow a career in politics, such as Women in Politics and Girls into Government (GIG). GIG works with working-class teenage girls to give them an opportunity to learn what politics is about. It exposes them to politics, and it plans to bring them up to the Assembly to see what is happening. Mrs Foster: Although I understand the frustration that some of my female colleagues have expressed, we must recognise that devolution holds out the prospect not only of more females becoming involved in politics but of more young people becoming involved, and, as my Friend Naomi Long has said, more people from ethnic minorities and people with disabilities. That positive exists now that devolution has returned. A low percentage of women may have been elected to the Chamber, but we must remember that the percentage of women Ministers compared to the number of MLAs is much higher. That is a tribute to the party leaders. Of the five main parties, it is notable that it is my party leader who is the only one who has been present for the entire debate. I therefore thank him for taking an interest in the debate on female participation in politics. We have a comprehensive strategy to tackle the under-representation of women in, as has been said, all parts of life — the gender equality strategy that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister introduced some time ago. I welcomed that strategy at the time, and, as far as I understand, the Executive have not resiled from the commitment to that strategy that parties made during suspension. I see no prospect of their resiling from that commitment — a point that was raised at the beginning of the debate. We should not use finite resources to reinvent the wheel when we have a gender equality strategy already in place. I wish to touch briefly on some points that were raised during the debate. Basil McCrea talked about equality of opportunity and selection based on merit. After that, his speech descended into a farce of Monty Python proportions. Dolores Kelly talked about support mechanisms to allow women to come through the system, and she also talked about comparative figures from other Administrations. Naomi Long dealt with the fact that the elected cohort here does not represent women in the way in which it should do. She also stated that women should be promoted on the basis of ability. She felt that language needed to be looked at, and, as a result, she felt unable to support the amendment. My colleague Peter Weir reflected on his experience as president of NILGA and its Women in Local Councils programme. I commend his leadership in that area. He also mentioned the need for action instead of simply setting up committees or working groups. John O’Dowd spoke in favour of the motion and against the amendment. He felt that because the gender equality strategy covers all issues, it is not focused enough to deal with the issue of the under-representation of women in politics. Roy Beggs supported the amendment and tried to defend his party’s lack of female MLAs by pointing to the fact that Sylvia Hermon had decided not to run for an Assembly seat. I acknowledge that, although 100% of the Ulster Unionist Party’s MLAs are male, 100% of its MPs are female. [Laughter.] Dawn Purvis is the only female leader in the House, and she supported the motion. She focused on equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. She does not agree with quotas, and she talked about some of the barriers women in politics face. There are many reasons for women not getting involved in politics, and Dawn Purvis dealt with some of them. Some obvious reasons are the aggressive nature of politics, the misogynistic attitudes of some male politicians, the long hours involved and women’s lack of self-belief. Many women feel that they do not have all of the necessary skills and therefore take a back seat. That does not seem to prevent our male colleagues — I am not looking at anyone in particular. [Laughter.] All those issues can be overcome, but I genuinely do not believe that a working group will encourage more women to get involved in politics. More DUP female voices are being raised at every level. I know that colleagues in the Assembly, both male and female, will continue to encourage and sustain those women who put themselves forward. As a party, we take the issue of female participation very seriously. I genuinely believe that now that the Assembly is up and running, more women will enter political life. However, Members must face the fact that not everybody wants to get involved in politics. Just as some mothers want to stay at home, others will go out to work. We must facilitate choice, so that everyone has equality of opportunity to come forward. Yes, we should make it easier for women to participate in political life, but setting up working groups is not the way forward. Ms Ní Chuilín: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. This motion is about setting up a working group. Many Members have commented on gender equality and gender imbalance, and some of those comments have been relevant and interesting. However, this is not a debate about gender equality; this is a debate about establishing a working group. At this very moment, the International Development All Party Assembly Group is meeting, and, in the past, working groups have focused on children and young people, disability, autism, and so on. Thus, when Members felt strongly enough about an issue, the Assembly decided to establish a working group to examine the issue further on a cross-party basis. I understand that some parties feel that promoting the idea of a working group — and any actions that may arise from it — might be a bridge too far. I can reveal, without fear of contradiction, that, at the last Business Committee meeting, one of my male colleagues made an underhand remark about a woman’s place being in the kitchen. Therefore, I am not surprised that some Members do not support the establishment of a working group. However, Members must take seriously their role as leaders, and political parties have a responsibility to make the first move. The establishment of a working group, and the implementation of any other initiatives that may arise from the work of this Assembly, can only complement that effort. However, such initiatives must not become a substitute for work that should begin in political parties. Unless the Assembly shows leadership, initiatives such as the Women in Local Councils and the Women into Politics programmes will be put under even more pressure. As far as I am aware, Belfast City Council is the only institution in which female members and female officials work together to resolve the issue. The council’s cross-party working group has worked well and has led by example. Last week’s events mean that many people will look to the Assembly to see what type of leadership it will provide and whether its Members will act as positive role models. I welcome the opportunity to assist the Ulster Unionist Party in encouraging more women into politics. I and other Members do not want to look constantly at Benches that are male, pale and grey. Therefore I support the motion and reject the amendment. Mr Kennedy: That is an accurate representation! Ms Ní Chuilín: Take a wee lie down, Danny. [Laughter.] Mr Deputy Speaker: Ciúnas. Order. Question put, that the amendment be made. The Assembly divided: Ayes 44; Noes 43 Ayes Billy Armstrong, Roy Beggs, Allan Bresland, Lord Browne, Thomas Buchanan, Gregory Campbell, Trevor Clarke, Rev Dr Robert Coulter, Jonathan Craig, Nigel Dodds, Jeffrey Donaldson, Alex Easton, Tom Elliott, Sir Reg Empey, Arlene Foster, Samuel Gardiner, Simon Hamilton, David Hilditch, William Irwin, Danny Kennedy, John McCallister, Basil McCrea, Ian McCrea, Dr William McCrea, Michael McGimpsey, Michelle McIlveen, David McNarry, Adrian McQuillan, Lord Morrow, Stephen Moutray, Robin Newton, Rev Dr Ian Paisley, Ian Paisley Jnr, Edwin Poots, George Robinson, Ken Robinson, George Savage, Jim Shannon, David Simpson, Jimmy Spratt, Mervyn Storey, Peter Weir, Jim Wells, Sammy Wilson. Tellers for the Ayes: Arlene Foster and Michelle McIlveen. Noes Martina Anderson, Alex Attwood, Cathal Boylan, Dominic Bradley, Mary Bradley, P J Bradley, Mickey Brady, Francie Brolly, Thomas Burns, Paul Butler, Willie Clarke, John Dallat, Mark Durkan, Dr Stephen Farry, David Ford, Tommy Gallagher, Michelle Gildernew, Carmel Hanna, Dolores Kelly, Anna Lo, Naomi Long, Fra McCann, Jennifer McCann, Kieran McCarthy, Raymond McCartney, Dr Alasdair McDonnell, Barry McElduff, Claire McGill, Patsy McGlone, Daithí McKay, Mitchel McLaughlin, Alban Maginness, Alex Maskey, Conor Murphy, Sean Neeson, Carál Ní Chuilín, John O’Dowd, Declan O’Loan, Michelle O’Neill, Pat Ramsey, Sue Ramsey, Margaret Ritchie, Brian Wilson. Tellers for the Noes: Paul Butler and Michelle O’Neill. Question accordingly agreed to. Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to. Resolved: That this Assembly expresses serious concerns about the under-representation of women in the Assembly and calls on all parties to commit themselves to addressing the situation; recognises the commitment of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to implementing the Gender Equality Strategy; and believes that individuals should obtain positions on merit, otherwise the argument for greater representation from women can be diminished. Development of the Rail Network Mr Deputy Speaker: The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one and a half hours for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to speak and 10 minutes to make the winding-up speech — [Interruption.] Order. All other Members who wish to speak will have five minutes. Two amendments have been received and are published on the Marshalled List. If amendment No 1 is made, amendment No 2 will fall. The proposers of the amendments will each have 10 minutes to propose and five minutes to make their winding-up speeches. Mr Dallat: I beg to move That this Assembly calls upon the Department for Regional Development to bring forward their plans for upgrading the rail network to provide attractive inter-city services between the principal centres of population within Northern Ireland and onwards to the Republic of Ireland. I am grateful for the opportunity to bring the motion before the House. It is some time since the previous Assembly found the money to invest in the new train sets that now serve the public in a style that was not previously possible. The public response to that investment has been encouraging, with the number of passengers using the Belfast to Derry line having doubled from half a million to one million a year. On other lines, business has increased by 30% or more, clearly indicating that when the level and reliability of rail transport improves, the public responds positively. However, it would be a gross exaggeration to suggest that anything close to a proper intercity service that is capable of attracting a huge number of passengers away from road to rail transport has been achieved. Since those new trains were introduced, interest in rail transport has increased to a new level in both parts of the island. Indeed, as the election campaign heats up in the Republic, it is clear that rail transport has become a major green issue — in the environmental sense, of course. Pipe dreams about extending rail facilities beyond Derry to Letterkenny and Sligo, thereby opening up the west, have become a possibility; indeed, dare I say, a reality. That is good news for the whole island. Rail transport functions best when the network is comprehensive. I acknowledge the co-operation of the councils served by the Belfast to Derry line, including Derry City Council and the Limavady, Coleraine, Ballymoney, Ballymena and Antrim borough councils, which encompass all the political parties. 2.00 pm Mr K Robinson: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think that Newtownabbey Borough Council should also be included in that grouping. Mr Deputy Speaker: That is not a point of order. Mr Dallat: I gladly acknowledge Newtownabbey Borough Council’s contribution to the work. By working together, the councils played a significant role in ensuring that plans to cut the line at Ballymena were not carried through, and some additional money was made available to carry out modest improvements — although not on the scale required to create a frequent, high-speed service. Translink is conducting an internal review, but that will not generate the kind of new money that is required to deliver what we now know will attract big numbers of commuters out of their cars, away from the roads and onto the railways. In the future, unlike the past, the rail transport infrastructure must not be forced to compete with the day-to-day running expenses of the Assembly. The serious deficit will not be solved in the short or long term if it has to compete day and daily with, for instance, education and health. That is what happened in the past. Money for infrastructure — be it road, rail, sea or air — must come from separate ring-fenced resources, otherwise we will repeat the mistakes of the past and the deterioration will continue. The motion is not only about the Belfast to Derry line, where, as I have said, there are huge opportunities for creating a new joined-up network in the west of Ireland that would bring about not only a positive contribution to the environment and a meaningful reduction in road fatalities but an enormous boost to our tourism industry. The rail network tangibly symbolises a new economic revival; it is a public statement of new confidence in the future. Let us use it to tell the world that we are on the move — advancing — and leaving behind the shackles of the past that prevented investment and encouraged decay. A man once told me that there will be those who will be remembered for what they built, and there will be those who will be forgotten for what they neglected or destroyed. Let the Assembly belong to the former category. The reopening of the mothballed Antrim to Lisburn line must be high on the agenda. We must insist that the Department for Regional Development takes phrases such as “non-core lines” and “lesser-used lines” out of its vocabulary, and we must encourage its officials to accept that the entire network is critical to the future of public transport. The same applies to Belfast’s rail network, and for that reason the SDLP will have no difficulty in accepting the amendment proposed by Mr Beggs. We have recently received renewed offers of financial help from the European Union. We must put concrete proposals for the renewing of the Belfast to Dublin Enterprise service before the European Union as a trans-European project, and in so doing emphasise that the eastern corridor is not the only route to the Republic and that the western corridor must not be ignored. In the past, we have encouraged both Governments to work together to ensure that our relationships with the European Union are maximised to the mutual benefit of both parts of the island. We are now in a strong position to ensure that that happens. Reviews and appraisals are a necessary part of any new venture, but this part of the Assembly’s business must not be unnecessarily held up by bureaucracy and red tape. Mr S Wilson: I take the Member’s point about reviews and appraisals, but assessing the costs of a proposal is part and parcel of any decision-making process. Is the Member aware of the possible costs of his proposals, and, if not, does he believe that it will be necessary to have an appraisal of any investment project like this? Mr Dallat: Of course I am aware of the need for appraisals. I wish that the appraisal of the refurbishment of the Belfast to Bangor line, on which there was an overspend of £20 million, had been done better. I am sure that that is of concern to the Member. If the Assembly has confidence in its ability to make this part of the world economically viable, the £500 million investment that is needed in the north-west could be recovered within 10 years. In the past, the Assembly has encouraged both Governments to work together to ensure that relationships with the European Union are maximised to the mutual benefit of both parts of the island. The Assembly is now in a strong position to do that. I am sorry to repeat myself, but reviews and appraisals are necessary. However, my point is that we must not get bogged down in so much red tape that nothing happens. The campaign for renewal began long ago: the arguments were made and were won. Action is now needed to demonstrate that the Assembly has the will and the determination to begin the march towards a new confidence and to acknowledge that the past failed us all and must, therefore, be addressed in a positive and practical way. Rebuilding the infrastructure is vital. However, it must be immediate and decisive. That infrastructure will attract inward investment, international tourism and, in particular, the confidence of the people whom we serve. In the past, the need to maintain the railways was not fully understood. They were ripped up all over the island of Ireland. In Britain, the railways were systematically destroyed after the Beeching Report. The price that is now being paid for that is choked motorways everywhere. At present, railways in the Republic are reopening, particularly in the west, where there is an acknowledge-ment that the issue of public transport infrastructure is not just about the existing volume of use but the need to deliver equality and target social need in those areas that have been disadvantaged in the past. That is particularly true in the north; hence the need to end the use of discriminatory terms such as “non-core” and “lesser-used” as criteria for investment. I hope that the debate provides the opportunity for those who take part to support the motion and send a clear message to both the British and Irish Governments, and especially to the European Union, to acknowledge the deficits of the past and to participate in building anew in everyone’s common interests, offering no threat to anyone. Finally, I would have liked to embrace both amendments. Unfortunately, the partitionist philosophy is still present. I have no doubt, however, that, in time, now that we have realised that we belong to a global village, and that people in Europe can move from one part to another without hindrance or regard for political borders, we will have the confidence to follow suit. Lord Morrow: I beg to move amendment No 1: Leave out all after “Assembly” and insert “notes the positive impact that a devolved Minister was able to have on rail previously, including the acquisition of new stock and the provision of free transport for senior citizens; and calls upon the Department for Regional Development to bring forward its plans for upgrading the existing rail network and further development of the network throughout Northern Ireland.” I have listened intently to Mr Dallat’s speech. It was a good speech until it reached the last paragraph or two, which is regrettable. Even on issues such as that which is being debated, there are those who seem compelled to politicise everything. I can see Mr Dallat smiling because he knows that what I have just said is the perfect truth. He has been caught offside. However, that will be dealt with at another time. It is fitting that the debate should take place in the early stages of the new Assembly. Transport is a key issue for the future well-being of Northern Ireland. I acknowledge that in the past — even under the failed Belfast Agreement — considerable progress was made in that field. The previous Minister for Regional Development Peter Robinson took strident steps to enhance the rail network throughout Northern Ireland. However, much still needs to be done. We look forward to that progress. Northern Ireland’s railway network plays a key role in transportation. New trains that were purchased during the first mandate are now in use on key routes. Senior citizens are able to travel for free, not only on railways, but on other modes of public transport. It is important that that is acknowledged. Members should examine the possibilities for developing the railway network, but our view should be holistic in the wider context that a huge area of Northern Ireland does not have access to the railway. The road network is the main transport system in those areas and, unfortunately, is likely to remain so. Nevertheless, I hope that, in any review, the Minister will take a wider view than simply examining the existing railway structure. Those who come from the west must travel a considerable distance to even see a train, never mind receive the services to which they are entitled. In the part of the world that I come from, the last railway system was known as the Clogher Valley Railway — and that is long departed. It cannot be right that a large geographical area of Northern Ireland should never be considered for a railway network. It is important that the Assembly takes those points seriously when it considers the way forward on this important matter. Dr W McCrea: Does the hon Member agree that areas that were previously mothballed, such as the Lisburn and Antrim lines, must be put into operation again? Furthermore, it cannot be acceptable that there is no link between Belfast International Airport and the city of Belfast. That must be addressed. Lord Morrow: I thank my colleague Dr McCrea for making that excellent point, which is poignant and significant. It is in the nature of Mr Dallat that, when he speaks, he likes to get a sting in at the end — Mr Campbell: He is a scorpion. Lord Morrow: He is a wee bit like that. Mr Dallat thinks that the Members on this side of the House shrivel up every time the Irish Republic is mentioned. There may be good reason for doing that, but the DUP comprises forward-looking people. My party believes that there should be a proper and workable rail infrastructure that links Northern Ireland, for which Members are responsible, and the rest of the island. I suspect that Mr Dallat is surprised to hear me say that. The DUP has good reasons to put up a Great Wall of China, and it does not forget how the Republic of Ireland allowed its territory to be used to house and offer security to those who committed all sorts of crimes. However, Members must make an honest effort to establish a rail network that will be fit for purpose. With the restoration of the devolved Assembly, Members are told that tourists will flock in by the planeload, trainload and any other means that will convey them. Members will all say “Hear, hear”, because that is the way that it should be. It is only with a proper rail network and transport system that those issues can be taken forward. I hope that the House will support the amendment that is tabled in my name, because it does not take anything away, but adds to what Members are trying to achieve in Northern Ireland — a proper, functional, fit-for-purpose railway infrastructure. I hope that Mr Dallat and his colleagues will see the wisdom of that and, when they think it through, will resoundingly support the amendment. I hope that the same progress is made with railways and transportation under the present Minister as was seen under the previous devolved Minister for Regional Development. 2.15 pm Rail travel should be developed and enhanced — but in conjunction with the other transport links in Northern Ireland, to provide a truly integrated system. That is the challenge for the new Minister, who I hope will soon give us plans that will benefit all travellers right across Northern Ireland. That can only create an enhancing spin-off for the whole of Northern Ireland. Mr Beggs: I beg to move amendment No 2: Leave out all after “attractive” and insert “commuting options and also inter-city services between the principal centres of population and the neighbouring regions.” I thank Mr Dallat for indicating his support for this amendment. I propose it because some of the language in the motion causes me some concern. “Inter-city services” and “principal centres of population” are not clearly defined. “Inter-city” could mean narrow benefit to only the long-distance traveller; for example, someone travelling from Londonderry to Belfast or from Belfast to Dublin. It is important that commuters throughout Northern Ireland benefit from improvements to the service. I want local commuting options to be included. Although it is important that there be good regional transport networks throughout Europe — and that means transport links from Belfast to Dublin — there are also important transport links on the Trans-European Network, and from Belfast to Larne and Stranraer, and on to other European destinations. It is also important that everyone is considered when encouraging investment in railways. The student who needs to travel to college and who values rail transport where it is available needs to be included, along with the tourist and the business traveller. Senior citizens also value the service, but there must be accessible points where they can enter the network. That is why local railway stations are important and need to be upgraded. We must improve our park-and-ride facilities, and walking and cycling access to stations, so that as many people as possible can be included in the regional transport plan that was presented to the previous Assembly to try to encourage a modal shift from road to rail. There is another reason why I thought that it was important to widen the scope of the motion, and many Members will be unaware of this. Northern Ireland got 23 new train sets; everyone said “Hurrah”. None of them came to East Antrim or the Larne line. We still have all the old sets. Therefore there is an issue of rail equality in Northern Ireland. Why do the East Antrim commuters have to be second-class citizens? The new trains are much more disabled-friendly, and therefore the use of rail could be widened to a much bigger community. At present, East Antrim and Larne do not have those disabled-friendly facilities, so it is important that further rail investment should allow other parts of the rail network to experience the uplift in rail transport that results from the introduction of those new, quality services. If we really want a modal shift — Mr S Wilson: Does the Member accept that the issue is not just about the quality of the trains, or whether they are disabled-friendly, but the fact that those trains, being so old, break down regularly? Therefore, people will not use them, because they cannot be sure of getting to work on time or getting back from work. Mr Beggs: I agree that punctuality is one of the biggest issues, and I am thankful that punctuality has been improving on the east Antrim line. It is important that we do not scare rail commuters away, because the Member’s prophecy could become self-fulfilling. We must recognise that punctuality has improved. Even the older trains that, on occasion, were cold and damp have been improving. Recent surveys of passenger numbers in the area have indicated that that is the case. However, the number of passengers using the service could increase greatly if new trains were provided. It is unfair that one section of railway in Northern Ireland does not have these new high-quality trains; and it is that very section that is part of the Trans-European Network. Tourists coming to Northern Ireland by train, or wishing to travel onwards from Belfast to Scotland must think that we are part of a Third World economy, since we use these ancient trains that are not of a quality expected by modern travellers. I hope that all Members are able to appreciate the wording of my amendment, which does not rule anything out, but seeks to improve the travel of local commuters, to improve opportunities and to promote improvements in regional travel throughout the United Kingdom and onwards to Dublin. Mr McCartney: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an rún agus tacaíocht a thabhairt dó. Phléigh an Tionól an t-ábhar seo cheana féin, agus tá a fhios agam go bhfuil an-suim ag an Chomhalta John Dallat sa cheist seo agus go bhfuil cuid mhór oibre déanta aige uirthi. Ba mhaith liom a aithint go bhfuil an tAire Conchúr Ó Murchú inár measc inniu. I welcome and support the motion proposed by the Member for East Derry. He has consistently raised this subject in the Assembly and elsewhere. I acknowledge the presence of Conor Murphy, the relevant Minister. Sinn Féin remains committed to building an Ireland of equals. I emphasise the word “building”, since we must build the physical transport infrastructure to deliver that Ireland towards which we strive. The project that lies ahead is developing rail travel with all its associated benefits, putting in place a fully integrated, accessible and multi-modal transport strategy. That is the task that we have set ourselves. Today’s debate serves as a timely reminder of how much we have been deprived in the past of the ability to develop, socially and economically. It is not my intention to concentrate on the past; Sinn Féin looks forward in the coming months and years with optimism to delivering, with all the parties, what we have set out to do. As many Members know, in travelling to carry out public responsibilities, there is an over-reliance on the car, and that that has now reached breaking point. The status and overemphasis that we place on the car is incompatible with the approach of our European neighbours. As was once said, one cannot build one’s way out of congestion by building roads. Ós rud é gurb as Doire mé, tá a fhios agam nach bhfuil an córas iarnróid sásta ag daoine atá ina gcónaí sa chathair agus sna ceantair máguaird. Bhí mé ar chruinniú i dTír Chonaill an tseachtain seo chaite — contae ina raibh dhá chéad míle iarnróid tráth ach nach bhfuil oiread agus míle amháin aici anois. As I am from Derry, I am only too familiar with the poor rail connections of our city. Last week I attended a discussion in Donegal town. At the beginning of the last century, County Donegal had some 200 miles of rail network, with four rail operators. Today, it has not a single rail track. That meeting accepted that the argument for rail in Donegal is enhanced by the retention and upgrading of the line to Derry, and that Derry should be linked to Sligo, and so on. The motion represents a real opportunity for these institutions to work with our friends and neighbours in border counties. In recent times, Donegal County Council has commissioned a feasibility study on the development of railway systems and links to Derry and beyond. Working with the Irish Government, and exploiting the European Union platform, to establish that, should not be viewed as cross-border or all-Ireland infrastructure; however, we should be seeking the establishment of an internationally recognised rail route from Derry to Kerry, and from Dublin to Belfast, in a loop. The amendments, as tabled, seek only to reduce the scope of the problem. Dr Deeny: I ask the Member and the Member who moved the motion whether they refer to the counties of Tyrone and Fermanagh, mentioned by Lord Morrow? There is huge tourist potential there. In Tyrone there are the Sperrins and the Ulster Amercian Folk Park; in Fermanagh there are the lakes. In addition to that, from Omagh alone some 250 cars travel to Belfast daily, and a similar number travel from Fermanagh. If we are talking about the north-west, my concern is that the Member is excluding County Tyrone and County Fermanagh — I hope not. Mr McCartney: Absolutely not. My reference to the western corridor includes those border counties, as well as Cavan, Monaghan and elsewhere. Inserting partitionism into the debate is wrong. It was said at last week’s meeting in Donegal town that stopping the Derry line would undermine the need for other networks. The result of confining rail development to the six Northern Counties would be that we would have a railway only in and around Belfast. We all agree that that should not happen. There are obvious environmental, social and economic benefits in having a proper rail network. The deaths on our roads over the weekend highlight the undoubted safety of rail travel, and that should not be lost on our policy-makers and decision-makers. The previous Assembly brought forward several options; in particular, the viability of the Derry to Belfast line. As regards Dr Deeny’s point, if the Derry to Belfast line were lost, there would be no possibility of extending the rail network to Tyrone and Fermanagh. It is important — and this is not from a parochial standpoint — that when it comes to promoting new rail networks, we ensure that the existing network is upgraded in order to protect any addition. I, and my party, support the motion. Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mr Ford: I welcome the debate, and I thank Mr Dallat for initiating it. I also welcome the near unanimity among all Members who have spoken, and I look forward to hearing what the new Minister will say on the matter. It is time for him to establish that his Department has ceased to be the Department for roads development and that it actually does a bit of rail development as part of its functions. However, Lord Morrow’s self-congratulatory speech about his party was out of line with the near unanimity achieved. I remember some of the issues he mentioned — in particular, the day that Mr Campbell, the then Minister for Regional Development, came to Crumlin to announce that the Knockmore line was to remain in operation for a year. I also remember that he did not show his face in south Antrim a year later when he closed the line. If we hope to increase our rail infrastructure, we must ensure that we do so completely and in all places. Although we should celebrate the success of the Assembly, in its first guise, in maintaining any kind of railway system — without the Assembly, we probably would have been reduced to having the Enterprise line and nothing else — we should not be too self-congratulatory, as a lot needs to be done. It has been highlighted that the Bangor to Portadown line is providing a service and attracting passengers but at a considerable cost overrun. If the Assembly is to ensure that it gets best value for money, it must ensure that that does not happen again. Mr Beggs highlighted a particular issue, and I know that Sean Neeson would not forgive me if I did not mention the failure to provide new rolling stock on the Larne line and that the decision to order 23 train sets was inadequate for the needs of the existing rail lines. There is also a need to improve timetables because they are a major disincentive to people to use trains. They are difficult to read when compared with bus timetables, which tend to be much simpler on some key routes. In retrospect, the decision to purchase 23 new train sets represented not nearly enough investment. Another 18 to 20 sets should have been ordered. The lack of railway infrastructure north of Ballymena was highlighted — John Dallat is keenly interested in that matter. That must be addressed if the Assembly hopes to link the main population centres. I welcome the fact that the amendment proposed by Mr Beggs refers to some significant key areas in respect of rail use — for example, commuter services into Belfast. That is why it is so unfortunate that the DUP, in a past life, closed the Knockmore line and thereby made it more difficult to reinstate services that could have linked to Belfast International Airport, which Dr McCrea, as the local MP, spoke about enthusiastically. Perhaps, rather than addressing the rest of us, he should speak with Mr Campbell and link up the inconsistencies in the DUP’s position on that point. 2.30 pm We need to develop those commuter services to ensure that people in places such as Crumlin and Antrim — which has a growing population — Mossley and Ballyclare get a decent transport service. We must follow through on Translink’s plans — which have not yet been funded by DRD — to get a rail and bus interchange beside the M2 at Templepatrick. Implementing those plans would do far more to decrease congestion at Sandyknowes than any plans to widen the motorway. If development of the rail network is to be taken seriously, it must be at the heart of DRD policy. The Department must establish the circumstances in which trains can begin to substitute for use of the private car. The Alliance Party is not sure that that point has been reached. When discussing option appraisals and research, it is easy to look at the financial factors involved. However, factors such as social inclusion — mentioned in the debate in relation to who has access to private vehicles — have not yet been taken into account. Other factors include the growing environmental problem that is now recognised across the world. Only public transport will solve our problems in commuting on the current mass scale, and commuting into Belfast in particular. The motion and amendment No 2 highlight some key issues that must be addressed. However, many problems will not be solved without a significant and serious input. There is no way that the Assembly will be able to resolve the environmental problems around Belfast if it continues to allow the private car to eat up 60% of the investment in transport. If the motion is to mean anything, Members must accept that the rail network is a key part of our transport infrastructure and not just as an option for a few extra visitors. If I may digress into your own county, Mr Deputy Speaker, I believe that Mr McCartney and his colleagues will have to determine what the key development in the west of the Province will be. They will have to decide whether a railway line through Donegal will be better than one through west Tyrone, which I once used on my summer holidays and look forward to using again. Mr Deputy Speaker: Thank you for including us in the debate. Mr Wells: Mention has already been made of the successes of previous devolved Ministers in delivering free transport for the elderly and improvements to rolling stock. Of course, those previous Ministers were Mr Peter Robinson and Mr Gregory Campbell. Mr Beggs: Does the Member accept that the previous Ministers for Regional Development made those successful changes with funding approved by the Executive, and that it was the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister that provided funding for free transport? Mr Wells: Yes, but the two Ministers made very wise use of that money, and I am far from confident that other Ministers would have had the ability to do so. Before any strategy is examined, Members must remember that rail travel is not accessible by everyone in Northern Ireland. People living in west Tyrone, Fermanagh and, indeed, large parts of south Down, have no access to rail transport unless they are prepared to travel considerable distances by private car. However, the Assembly should be doing all that it can to ensure that those who do have access to a railway line are encouraged to use it. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Encouraging greater use of the rail network would reduce congestion — an increasing problem in Belfast and across many parts of the Province — and there would be environmental benefits. Financial costs must always be included in any assessment, but environmental impact is becoming more important. Northern Ireland has to meet the targets set down in the Kyoto protocol, and the draft Climate Change Bill is putting strict limits on carbon dioxide emissions. One way of reducing those emissions is to move people off private transport and onto trains and buses. Northern Ireland’s transport policy is built on the regional transportation strategy. Longer-serving Members will remember that in 2002 the strategy was passed in the Chamber unanimously. However, there is some way to go before implementation will be completed. A start must be made on improving the rail experience of passengers in Northern Ireland. Ministers began the process by purchasing new C3K trains, but there is much room for improvement. Obviously those trains are used on the busiest lines, but Northern Ireland Railways still has a high percentage of rolling stock that could not be described as modern. As a student at Queen’s University in 1980, I cleaned trains at the old station at Sydenham — 27 years ago. The sad reality is that some of the trains that I cleaned all that time ago are still being used to convey passengers. David Cairns, the former Minister with responsiblity for regional development, in a reply to my colleague Iris Robinson, who was showing a concern for public transportation through a parliamentary question, stated that a number of C3K trains were used on the main lines, and that there were nine Class 400 units that were between 19 and 21 years old, six MK2 coaches that were 33 years old and three Class 80 trains that were between 28 and 32 years old — those were some of those that I cleaned in Sydenham. Obviously, trains that are approaching 30 years old do not provide the best experience for passengers. It is important that an attempt be made to increase the number of people making use of our railways and that passengers have the most pleasurable journey possible. The main purpose is not to drive people off the road but to entice them on to the trains, because public transport is so much better — a more enjoyable journey to and from work. Certainly some of the trains that are in service |