Minutes of Proceedings

Session: 2012/2013

Date: 19 June 2013

Venue: Rooms 54 and 29

1.00 pm  The meeting opened in closed session in Room 54.

5. Inquiry into DCAL capital projects

Members discussed core areas to prioritise in the Audit Office report and prepared for the evidence session on the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure capital projects. 

1.42 pm Audit Office officials joined the meeting

The Clerk highlighted the core areas and invited the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) and Ms Suzanne Walsh, NIAO to address questions from the Committee on the Audit Office report on capital projects.

2.03 pm Mr McIlveen left the meeting.

2.05 pm  The meeting was adjourned to re-convene in Room 29.

2.12 pm The meeting re-convened in public session in Room 29.

1. Apologies 

There were no apologies.

2. Minutes of the meeting held on 12th June 2013 

Agreed: The draft minutes of the meeting held on 12th June 2013 were agreed by the Committee. 

3. Matters arising

3.1 Domiciliary Care in the Western Trust

Members noted a Memorandum from the C&AG on the tender for Domiciliary Care in the Western Trust.

The Chairperson invited the C&AG, Mr Denver Lynn, NIAO and Mr Paddy McCauley, NIAO to brief the Committee on this issue.

2.35 pm Mr McIlveen returned to the meeting.

Agreed:  Following discussion the Committee agreed to note the Memorandum. 

Agreed:  The Committee agreed to provide the Memorandum to the letter writer who originally raised the issue, and that the Clerk should write to the letter writer thanking him for bringing this matter to the Committee’s attention.

3.2 Literacy and Numeracy press release

Agreed: The Committee agreed the tabled draft Press Release should be amended and circulated to members for their approval before being issued on Wednesday, 26th June 2013 with the launch of the Literacy and Numeracy report.

4. Inquiry into the Safety of Services provided by Health and Social Care Trusts

Members noted the Memorandum on the Thirteenth Report from the Public Accounts Committee Mandate 2011-2015.

The Chairperson welcomed Ms Fiona Hamill, Treasury Officer of Accounts who was in attendance to address any issues raised by the Committee.

Members put some questions to Ms Hamill.

2.38 pm Mr Hussey joined the meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to request clarification in writing of recommendation 1 of the MOR.

2.55 pm  The Committee moved into closed session.

5. Inquiry into the Police Service of Northern Ireland: use of Agency Staff

2.55 pm Mr Hussey declared a conflict of roles in this agenda item as Chairman of the Audit Committee of the Policing Board.

Mr Hussey left the meeting.

2.55 pm Mr McIlveen declared an interest in this agenda item as a member of the Policing Board with no pecuniary interest.

Members noted correspondence from the Chief Constable in response to queries raised by the Committee in correspondence dated 8th and 15th May 2013.

Members noted correspondence between the Chief Constable and an MLA.

The Chairperson invited the C&AG and Mr Roger McCance, NIAO to brief the Committee on this issue.

3.00 pm Mr Copeland and Mr Dallat left the meeting.

3.05 pm  Mr Dallat returned to the meeting.

3.07 pm Mr Copeland returned to the meeting.

Following discussion on an issue Mr Clarke proposed that the Committee should consider the rest of the report.

The Chairperson put the question that the Committee should now consider the rest of the draft Report.

Ayes -  Trevor Clarke, Paul Girvan, David McIlveen, Michael Copeland, Adrian McQuillan

Noes - Michaela Boyle, John Dallat, Seán Rogers, Chris Hazzard, Daithí McKay

The motion fell.

Following further discussion Mr McKay proposed that the Committee meet to agree the report when the Deloitte internal audit report into fixed term contracts awarded in PSNI has been received.

The Chairperson put the question that the Committee meet to agree the report when the Deloitte internal audit report into fixed term contracts awarded in PSNI has been received.

Ayes - Michaela Boyle, John Dallat, Seán Rogers, Chris Hazzard, Daithí McKay

Noes - Trevor Clarke, Paul Girvan, David McIlveen, Michael Copeland, Adrian McQuillan

The motion fell.

The Committee considered correspondence from Supt Henderson seeking clarification of the PAC position re outstanding answers to Committee queries.

Agreed: Following discussion the Committee agreed that the Clerk should write to Superintendent Henderson to clarify that there are no outstanding issues and that the MLA referred to in the correspondence is not a member of the Public Accounts Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that the issue would be further considered at a meeting to be convened next week.

6. Inquiry into NI Fire and Rescue Service: An Organisational Assessment and Review of Departmental Oversight and Report on Accounts 2011 – 2012

Members noted that the tabled paper would contribute to the draft report on this inquiry.

The Chairperson invited the C&AG, Ms Jacqueline O’Brien and Ms Louise Mason, NIAO to brief the Committee on this issue.

Following discussion the members went through the Issues Paper paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraph 1  -  read and agreed.

Paragraph 2  -  read and agreed as amended.

Paragraph 3  -  read and agreed.

Paragraph 4  - read and agreed.

Paragraph 5  -  read and agreed.

Paragraph 6 – not agreed.

4.18pm  Mr McQuillan left the meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Health Committee in relation to the issue in paragraph 6 of the draft issues paper to ensure that the undertaking made is followed up.

4.21 pm Mr McQuillan returned to the meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to consider the draft report on this inquiry next Wednesday, 26th June 2013 at 1.00 pm (with lunch available from 12.45 pm).

7. Inquiry into the Department of Finance and Personnel – Collaborative Procurement and Aggregated Demand

Members noted the Issues Paper.

The Chairperson invited the C&AG, Mr Alan Orme and Mr Eddie Bradley, NIAO to brief the Committee on this issue.

Following discussion the members went through the Issues Paper paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraph 1 - read and agreed.

Paragraph 2 - read and agreed as amended.

Paragraph 3 - read and agreed.

Paragraph 4 - read and agreed to reflect SME content from paragraph 3.

4.40 pm Mr Girvan left the meeting.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that the issues paper will contribute to the draft report on this inquiry.

8. Any other business

There was no other business.

9. Time, date and place of next meeting

The next meeting of the Committee will be held at 1.00 pm on Wednesday, 26th June 2013 (with lunch available from 12.45 pm) in room 115, Parliament Buildings.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 4.47 pm.

Ms Michaela Boyle
Chairperson, Public Accounts Committee
12 June 2013

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